You Are Not Broken, You Are Wired

We talk with Hanna Curman about why so many of us feel stuck even when we’re smart, capable, and deeply motivated, and why that does not mean we’re broken. We connect burnout, people pleasing, avoidance, and repeated patterns back to the nervous system and share simple ways to start rewiring how we respond to stress and change. 
• the difference between being broken and being wired for survival 
• Hanna’s career crisis and the moment her body hit the limit 
• “the curse of being capable” and how childhood roles shape adult patterns 
• why the brain treats rejection like a real threat 
• the Spot Decode Direct method to notice signals and change responses 
• practical modalities that support healing, including breathwork, yoga, therapy, journaling, nature, and faith 
• moving from pushing harder to resetting for higher results with less effort 
• leading with the nervous system instead of the ego and expectations 

Hanna's website: https://www.hannacurman.se

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Transcript

Welcome And The Real Goal

Cassandra 0:25

Good day out there to all of my listeners, and I'd like to welcome you to Is Your Way in Your Way podcast. And I'm your host. For those new listeners, my name is Cassandra Crawley. And I did get the name of my podcast from my debut book. Title Is Your Way? In Your Way. And also this podcast is for women who know you just know there's meant to be more for you. Like, but you can't figure it out. And I have a passion about this because I always knew there was more, but I could never figure it out. And it used to bother me. And and I'm trying to figure when it was, it was like something standing in my way, and I just couldn't figure it out. So this podcast, what we will do is we will uncover those hidden barriers, keeping us stuck. Okay. And that way, when we kind of get unstuck and listen to the stories of women all across the world, you're going to receive more clarity, more confidence, more courage and purpose. You'll start having, if you don't have a meaning for life, I'm trusting that you will start getting my meaning. Like, what why am I here? I have a guest today, and our topic, we're going to talk about we are not broken, we are wired. Imagine that. So now we all heard the thing, this that the biggest obstacle standing in our way is us. And I get so tired of hearing that. I know that. Okay. I know it's me. I bet you know it's you. So, so you know, so so what are we gonna do about it? But what this next guest is gonna talk about is the way your brain and nervous system have learned to respond. That's really what the deal is. And remember how you keep repeating the same patterns, even when you know better. So, this conversation may change the way you see yourself forever. And I like to welcome Hannah Kerman to talk about that. Good day, Anna. How are you? Hi, I'm good.

Hanna 2:49

Thank you. I'm so looking forward to having this conversation with you as well, Cassandra.

Cassandra 2:55

I am too, Hannah, because I know that you are going to bless my listeners as well as myself. I always say I don't know at all. And I can learn from everybody that I talk to, and that's my desire for my listeners. And not only learn, but to transform. And one of the things you talked about transforming, you said it's definitely cost. It costs a lot to transform,

Meet Hanna and Brain Shift

Cassandra 3:20

right? But it also can create something great. Now, what I'd like to do now is to read your bio because I want my listeners to know what qualifies you to talk about. We are broken, but and we are so also wired. Hannah is an international speaker, founder of Brain Shift. She's a certified brain-based coach, an author who helps leaders transform from the inside out. She's drawing from neuroscience, leadership, and her own deeply personal journey. Hannah teaches that lasting change begins in the nervous system, not just the mind. Her work empowers people to lead with greater emotional intelligence, resilience, and purpose while persevering, the humanity so essential in today's AI-driven world. Yes. And she also inspires audience to discover their why, showing how purpose shapes the way we lead ourselves and others. Wow. Hannah, as I read your story and just preparing for this podcast, I'm you were a global manager carrying responsibilities across the country. Wow. You looked apart, like I did many times near the end of my career. I looked apart, but internally it sounded like you were an inferno. Is that true? Like what? Okay. Now, if you worked for a while, when in your workspace did you feel like internally things were not going well for you, although you looked good. Like what point in your career did you discover that?

Hanna 5:14

Well, I think it's been in different uh different situations in my in my work career. And the first time that I discovered it and that made a huge shift in the way that I was looking at myself. And also that was when I started to study what it was that made us do and act and react in different ways. That was actually 20 years ago. Oh wow. So it was uh it was a long time, and and it was a specific situation. And if you if you would like, I can I can take you back to that situation. Yeah.

Cassandra 5:49

Oh, absolutely. The reason I do, because I know your story is familiar with a lot of people and your situation, it may be somebody else's situation, and also perhaps in that situation, you also had a crisis that yeah, that I'd like for you to talk about, which I believe maybe have triggered the work that you currently do.

Hanna 6:10

Yes, it yes, it definitely does. But 20 years ago, it was a December morning, a Monday morning, December, and I live in Sweden. December morning in Sweden is not really a very nice place to wake up in. I mean, it's dark outside, it's windy, it's it's really chilly outside. But this specific Monday morning, I was very, very curious about the day because that this was the day when I was going to present to my managers about an idea that I had. I was a global responsibility, uh, had a global responsibility for a process. And I had the this idea that I wanted to expand and and get approval to go go ahead with. And I had spent evenings, I had spent weekends, I had neglected myself and my children to really prepare for this meeting. So this Monday morning, I was dressing up and I was really heading for the head office and giving my speech. But as it was time for me in the agenda, my manager just simply stood up and said that's sorry, but I don't have any more space in my in my calendar right now. And you know, it was like all of me are stood apart. Sure. I had been preparing for this, I had been dressing up for this, I had really, really, really been eager to show them my ID. So I was just running rushing out in my car, and there

The Meeting That Broke Her

Hanna 8:05

I was sitting and just holding the steering wheel, trembling, and my tears was just flooding down the cheeks.

Cassandra 8:13

Yeah, because it was such a strong feeling, yeah, yeah, devastating feeling. Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you, what uh were you the only woman in your in your space?

Hanna 8:28

I was not the only woman, but of course, in the corporate that I was employed within, which was dominated by men. Yes, it was dominated by men, and and I do also believe that the culture, let's call it the culture, or the way that we were expecting to behave, was very masculine.

Cassandra 8:54

Uh-huh.

Hanna 8:55

You know, you are supposed to perform, you are supposed to deliver, you are supposed to act, you are supposed to be loud and clear.

Cassandra 9:05

Yes.

Hanna 9:06

So so I would definitely say that the the culture or the environment was very masculine.

Cassandra 9:15

Okay, okay. Uh-huh.

Hanna 9:18

But I was not on the only woman, but but um my manager was a was a man.

Cassandra 9:24

Wow. Now you know what? Oh, Hannah, I I also recall you asking yourself, why? You know, I'm sure after that happened, you even questioned your uh confidence, perhaps dwindled. And and perhaps you at one time you said you carried so much alone. Um why and you didn't feel like you had the support. Um I I could I you it's kind of like I covered my knees with needs with the story, I was strong, and you even hid behind a mask that she was strong. And then not only that, but I see so so many similarities. You worked a lot, and I worked a lot, and even Friday evenings running into the weekend, you worked a lot. Why? What was going on? I mean, after after you had that uh the boss says I don't have time, you prepare, blah, blah, blah. That inflated who kind of was, and then you even was questioning the why. What did you get out of that? What happened? And that's before the crisis, right?

Hanna 10:43

Well, that this I mean, this was the crisis that I just told you about. This this was the the starting point in the crisis, in the professional crisis, or or or in me starting to question myself, why did I neglect myself? Why did I neglect my children? Why did I neglect my needs?

Cassandra 11:07

Yeah.

Hanna 11:07

And ask those questions, why am I acting the way that I'm doing? So that is also when I started to study the reasoning behind it, yeah, and made me that that gave me so many answers on my own behaviors and and reasoning why I did as I did. So take me back to to what you asked me because you did ask me a question there.

Cassandra 11:38

Yeah, about the you know, well, actually, I'm curious to why. Yeah question, like like it right. Okay, let's go there. Why?

Hanna 11:46

Yeah, why why did I why did I act in the way that I did? Yeah, yeah, and I think that that is a survival mechanism. Before we go into that, and and and because what when I was listening to to your intro, and you told us about the um the uh name of this podcast, and also that that is the name of your of your recent book, I had a situation just a few weeks ago. I was on a retreat, it was actually in Denver, so it was quite close to where you are. Okay, and I had this feeling or this this book title coming up to me, and the book title was The Curse of Being Capable, because I have always been capable. My entire life, I have been capable to take care of myself, to take care of my siblings, to take care of my parents, to take care of whatever was needed. I always had that, and of course, that is the way that I have survived, yeah, to be able to be being capable of more or less anything, sure, and then coming back to why am I doing or why was I doing and acting the way that I was doing, because I wanted to show that I'm capable of this, uh capable to run this operation myself, right? I'm capable to do, yeah, to prove it, yeah, because that is the way that I had been wired to be listened to or to be someone, to be loved, to survive, but of course that's not true. I mean, I am I I should be able to ask for support just as anyone else. If I was asking for support, would that make me a more simple person? Would that make me that I would not should not have been able to get the love that that we all are supposed to be to get and receive? Of course it shouldn't.

Cassandra 14:17

Yeah.

Hanna 14:18

But my brain was wired in the way that I should have to do everything and be capable to run myself.

Cassandra 14:29

Now, why wasn't wired, like what happened? Okay, you took care of your your siblings, right? I took care of more or less everything. I just mean because you did it on your own. Okay, all right.

Hanna 14:43

I I did I did I I mean I I grew up in a family and I had two two parents, but as I I was I was the one in the it was four of us. We are four siblings, it's very close uh in between us, it's just six years in between my older sister and my youngest uh sister. So it's very, very close in in time frame for us. Okay, and I ended up or already become became the one that was the most capable to make sure that everyone was safe.

Cassandra 15:20

I got it. Okay, yeah, yeah, all right.

Hanna 15:22

So that is what I mean with I was the one taking care of every everything uh and everyone, right?

Cassandra 15:28

Without any help. I mean, because you felt you could do this by yourself.

Speaker 2 15:32

I could yeah, okay, yeah, okay. Yeah,

The Curse Of Being Capable

Speaker 2 15:35

wow. All right. So so the reason why is coming back to the to to the brain, and and they they wire we that we are wired to do different things, and and our brain is wired to keep us alive. That is the most essential thing for our brain to do.

Cassandra 15:57

Uh-huh. Okay.

Hanna 15:58

And it will always search for what have made you, what have kept you alive up until now. And then it will do everything it can to support me to do act in the same way as I have survived so far. That means that I will survive with the same patterns in the future.

Cassandra 16:24

Right. Okay. So the work you're doing, it sounds like you had to do it, you know, to kind of get out of that what you will call what you call brokenness. So tell us what you did and how we can not feel broken, rewire. I'll say what can we do? What can our listeners do?

Hanna 16:50

First of all, just start to reflect upon yourself. Okay. I'm working with a with um a chain, I call it the clarity chain.

Cassandra 17:01

Okay.

Hanna 17:01

And we are we are there talking about the state, align, decide, say, and execute. And in all those different steps, we do a loop, which is spot decode direct. And that is what I I always start with, that you need to start to spot, spot your own signals, spot your your breath, spot your your muscle tension, spot your your heartbeat.

Cassandra 17:34

Spot SPLT. You gotta spot, like if you're feeling kind of strange, like recognize it, become aware of it, recognize it, recognize it.

Hanna 17:45

All right, okay, and then start to decode it and say, okay, how come when I meet that specific person that my heartbeat always goes up? So it's that sounds like anxiety, doesn't it? It sounds like what anxiety, it could be anxiety, it could be anxiety, it could be anger, it could be avoidance, it could be a lot of different things. The most important thing is that you start to recognize it and see it and see and listen to the patterns. Okay, okay, because that those patterns will tell you something. And as you have started to recognize the different patterns, it might also be that you you you uh feel frightened than a certain kind of of way that people might approach you or don't approach you. It I mean it that is so individual. Yes, but you need to start to to recognize it and and see it, and then decode it and say, and and understand where does this come from? Because too often we are just making it up, it's not really a true threat. Okay, it's something that we are making up, okay. And see if this pattern will this pattern really support me in the way forward, or will it hold me back? And as you know that, then you can direct it. Okay, let's let's get rid of it, or let's use it a little bit more.

Cassandra 19:54

Okay, let's use an example. All right, first of all, many of my listeners, like I said in the beginning, they know something's missing in their life, they just can't figure it out, and they're stuck. So, first of all, maybe that is spotting. I kind of know what I want to do, but I don't. Okay. Now, how do we decode that? How would they decode that just like I remember myself? I knew there was something else for me to do, I just could not figure it out, or I avoided it, you know, like okay, all right, or I procrastinated, or whatever. So, how would one decode that and then direct?

Hanna 20:45

Good question, really good question, and I think you nailed it there, Ashley, without even recognizing that you did nail it, because that is really avoiding. Okay, okay, because usually when we want to do something, but we don't do it, why am I avoiding this?

Cassandra 21:11

Okay, okay.

Hanna 21:13

So that is the decoding part to understand the reasoning behind the avoidance. You probably say that I can't afford it, I don't have time for it, I don't know how to do it. Uh well, you know, there are so many things that you can so you can explain why you don't do the change or the shift that you want to do.

Cassandra 21:41

Usually just excuses. Okay, all right. Okay, so avoid it now that you know that, then what's the direct? How would I how would people direct that?

Speaker 2 21:53

So when you know why you are avoiding things, because there is usually an avoidance, is usually connected to something that feels threatening.

Cassandra 22:05

Okay, threatening, like I won't do good, or what would they say about me, or yes, and what happened?

Hanna 22:13

I mean, what happens if if if you if someone would say something bad about you, what would actually happen? Right, you would be excluded, you would feel excluded, and to be excluded from the community that is or has been a threat, a survival threat.

Cassandra 22:39

Okay, okay.

Hanna 22:41

So we that is what I'm talking about when when we are talking about wiring that our Our brain is wired to sort to keep us alive, and by that staying out of threats. And as it's wired in this exact same way that it was 40,000

Spot Decode Direct Your Patterns

Hanna 22:59

years ago, 50,000 years ago, it doesn't recognize the difference. If there is a lion that is going to bite you and eat you, or if you're going to be excluded and don't have any and and not being accepted, it's the same kind of feeling inside you.

Cassandra 23:20

Right. So you but you but how do you overcome it? You don't now when you went through this, it's kind of like you said, healing isn't just spiritual or emotional, it's also neurological. I mean, who did somebody help you? Did you do this on your own? When you say it's neurological, that's the brain because you're wired that way. So I guess I'm trying to look for the more complete picture of why people get in their way, or or better yet, how do they move beyond it? Yep.

Speaker 2 23:58

Yep. I see your point. I see your point. And I and I think there are two different ways to do. I mean, there are so many different ways to do it. One one of the things where I can support as a coach and and and where I started was really to understand.

unknown 24:17

Okay.

Hanna 24:18

To understand where where do I come from? Just looking at my ancestors. Where is my what is my my mother's history? What's my father's history? What have they gone through? Because that those patterns are connected to me as well.

Cassandra 24:36

Right, your ancestors. Uh-huh.

Hanna 24:39

So that's one one way of starting to understand intellectually what you have with you in your ancestral linear and within yourself. But it might still be stuck in your neurosystem. Right. And that is that is uh where you, I mean, going to me to myself, that is where I have been working with yoga, I've been working with breath work, I've been working with trauma therapy, a lot of those things.

Cassandra 25:12

Okay.

Speaker 2 25:12

Um, and and I think that that is you need to find your own way there. What what what is good for you? Because what's good for me might not be good for you. But for me, it was really to take the time for it to to work with with my body in uh in yoga classes and make sure that the energy is flowing free, freely in my body.

Cassandra 25:45

Okay.

Hanna 25:47

And I do believe that that it's also constant work. I mean, you don't really get you don't really get to the end point. Yes. You can't you continue to work with yourself all throughout the life because there will be new new blocks that you need to to decode and and and get through, right?

Cassandra 26:09

Right. You're recovering, you're recovering, unstuck person trying to get unstuck, yeah. Right. But it doesn't really end. However, use are some of the the modalities that you do to help people get beyond it, like the yoga and the meditation and the homotherapy, the the breathing you talk about. And some people may may journal, you know. There's some people that go to church. Yes. Um, yeah, there are a whole lot of modalities. Now, this is the key though, Hannah. I think a person has to get to a point where they're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know, it because I always say when you get to a person's heart, that that can transform them. You know, when you touch them there, because the heart is critical, you know, they always say, guard your heart because those are the issues of life, but yet it's there. And you know, and I believe the majority of my listeners, because they know it's something, they don't want to stay there, they want to do something, and that's one of the reasons for the podcast to listen to what other individuals have gone through and to know that they're not alone, you know. That what happened in that in that meeting, Hannah? I don't have any space for you on the agenda. Like, oh I did all of this. What do you mean? You know, so how deflating that was. Now, did you leave that position?

Hanna 27:54

I did not. Okay, I did not, I did not. Well, of course, I don't have that position today. So, of course, that yes, I did leave it, but no, I did not leave that position right there. And then what I did, what actually happened was that I I I was home for six months after that situation. I went home for six months. I did. Why? So what happened for six months? Because I because that was the that was the end of uh I mean I did not have any more energy at all. And so I just felt that if I don't take a break now, that's gonna kill me. Well that was a mental break. It was a mental break, it was a total mental mental break, but of course it also affected my physical health as well. And I was I was a really strong, I had a really strong physical body because I I was I was running the orienteering, so I was running like 10k without any problems, several times every week, I was out in the nature, you know, I had no problems at all with with my physical body and my physical health, but as I took this time off, I realized how tired I was. And again, I mean, if you if we as long as we are running, as we are running, we usually don't feel the pain as we're running because we so we are so busy, so we need to stop and and and take that time. But what happened? I mean, I uh as I said, I I took those six months, and that is also when I started to study, really, really to study and and try to understand the patterns, my patterns. I I was interviewing a lot of people around me that were in the same similar situation, and I could see, okay, what similarities do we have? And I was reading a lot of research, I was reading a lot of of uh books about burnout and and things like that. And after six months, I felt that I I I was I was stronger than ever. So I came back, I came back to the same position, but and what I did was that I shifted the way that I was showing up, meaning that I I got higher results with less effort.

Cassandra 30:36

You had higher results with less effort.

Hanna 30:39

I did, I did, and I think that is one of the things that we need to understand as well. You don't get the results for by pushing yourself harder.

Cassandra 30:52

Uh-huh.

Hanna 30:53

You have to reset, you have to reset and you have to attract and you have to thrive instead of survive. I think that that is that is a key word as well. Yes, thrive to really see am I surviving my life or am I thriving in my life?

Cassandra 31:13

Wow, right, right, man. I you know, I I appreciate your openness and your care because I know there are listeners that's been there, there now. If they're not there now, they may be there. And it's okay

Burnout Recovery And Thriving Again

Cassandra 31:29

if you can take that time off. You know, there's some jobs that you take that time off, you just you don't get paid, you may not have the job when you get back or whatever, but you made a decision that if you did not take the time off, you may not be here today. I mean, you know, you gotta take care of yourself, right?

Hanna 31:51

Yes, yes. And I think that that goes for two different things. I mean, if if I would not have taken that time off, I would probably have been sitting here with a pain in my body. I would probably be sitting here, I wouldn't sit be sitting here because I wouldn't be be working with what I what I'm doing today, exactly. But but but really to to see that all those things that we that hit us if we allow ourselves just to take some time to reflect. Yeah, I mean I did have the possibility to take six months. I know that that is not possible possible for for everyone, but we can all give ourselves five minutes a day, five minutes a day to just look at yourself and see what did I do today that I'm really happy about.

Cassandra 32:58

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 32:59

What you doing? What did I yeah, what did I do today that I'm grateful for? And what did I do today, or what is it today that I'm thankful for?

Cassandra 33:09

Yes, that's beautiful, that's beautiful, yeah.

Hanna 33:13

Because when you focus on those things, that is also that I mean that there's uh the law of attraction. I do believe that many of the listeners have are are are familiar with that, and I do believe in it. I do believe in the law of attraction, but you need to allow yourself as well. Give yourself permission, give yourself permission, give yourself permission to to dream, okay, give yourself permission to recognize that really makes you feel proud, happy, and thankful.

Cassandra 33:57

Okay, okay, and and you know, actually there's some people like what what what what is gonna make me happy? And that's something they need to spy and recognize, okay, I need to figure that out. Okay, because happy can be a happening. You know, I remember when I bought my dream car, I was so happy, like, oh my gosh, I finally got it. Now it's like, okay, you know. So my thing is just what will give me joy, you know, that that nobody else can give me that's in internal opposed to the external, external piece. You know, it's one thing I I want to talk about briefly. You said lead with your nervous system, not your ego. How do you lead with your nervous system?

Hanna 34:47

Again, coming back to to uh recognizing and and start to listen to your nervous system. Okay, I mean, your ego is usually up in your brain.

Cassandra 34:58

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Hanna 35:00

And that is what you believe that others are expecting from you.

Cassandra 35:06

Okay.

Speaker 2 35:07

I mean, we are we many of us are people pleasers.

Cassandra 35:11

Yes, of course.

Hanna 35:12

So am I. I'm a recovering one.

Cassandra 35:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2 35:14

Absolutely. Uh-huh. And it's it's it's it's natural as well. I mean, we want to be liked, we want to be be uh loved, we want to be trusted, but people pleasing sometimes or too often, that is also stress. It's uh something that may that that that you are jumping into because you are trying to avoid the pain that you have in your nervous system.

Cassandra 35:42

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Okay, so what I'm hearing is you did a brain shift, you had to, you know, you were able to take six months off. A lot of people will not um cannot, even sometime in the day, give yourself a break, come home to yourself, you know, just settle down for a little bit, walk in nature, take yoga, journal, go to church, whatever it's gonna take for you to be, I believe, the person that God ordained us to be. Because I know I do not believe we're here just to be here. We're not here just to go through the moment. We are here for a reason, you know. And if you woke up this morning, your your work was not done. That's that's the way I see it. And what you went through, you would not have found the brain shift, you would not have found the spot, the decode, the direct, where you can use that to support and empower other people to use that that modality, so to speak, to help people. And I applaud you for that. And I like I said, thank you for your candor. There's so many people that won't even, you know. I remember when depression, now it's big after we had COVID, you know, people talk about it, but depression has been back years, years, years, but people wouldn't talk about it because it's taboo, right? Oh no, absolutely.

Hanna 37:11

Yeah, I mean, what why is it taboo? I mean, it's it's we are humans, and and and if we I and

Lead With Nervous System Not Ego

Hanna 37:19

I think that that is really something that I I do believe is is the most important thing to be able to express your own emotions, yeah.

Cassandra 37:30

That's right, but you express it with someone you trust, yes, okay, and and that's that's critical, you know, because there's some people that say, Oh, they're crazy. You know, it's like depression to me is like a headache or unfortunately cancer, or it's still an illness, right? So, so again, Hannah, I how how can my listeners get in touch with you?

Hanna 37:55

Well, there the easiest way to get in touch with me is through LinkedIn. Okay. And you you search my name there. I'm the only one with my name in the world. So what do you mean by that? I am so you will find me there and I will answer all DMs I I personally answer. So so if you want to reach out to me, if you do that, do it there. Or you can search information about me on my webpage as well, which also has the same name as my name, and then it's S E as I am based in Sweden, so it's Hanakurman.se.

Cassandra 38:31

Right. Yeah, yeah. I saw that like I've never seen dot se. Maybe you know, we do.org or or or uh yeah, so that never sc. So that was something new for me. Wow, you should come to Sweden.

Hanna 38:46

Yeah, but you come in the summertime when it's when it's uh light and warm and nice and cozy.

Cassandra 38:52

Yeah, I sure will come right the first week in December. Remember?

Hanna 38:56

No, avoid December. I would avoid December.

Cassandra 39:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, Hannah, it was my pleasure, and I just thank you and thank you for enabling yourself to get out of your own way and be candid about what it is that you need. And as I tell my listeners to think about it, maybe you've had this experience, like Hannah, someone, or you know somebody, please share this podcast with them. If Hannah could do it, so can you. And I'm gonna ask this question again. Listeners, is your way in your way? Is your way stopping you from doing what God has ordained you to do? Thank you, Hannah. Again, thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, I'm sorry about that. All right, God bless you and bye for now. Okay, take care. Thank you.