Is Your Way In Your Way?
Empowering women to overcome self-imposed barriers, self-sabotaging behaviors, imposter syndrome, and burnout, preventing them from living their best lives on their terms. Do you feel stuck? Do you need help discovering your purpose or what your best life truly is? This podcast provides inspiration, tools, and strategies for women to live a purpose-filled life of hope, aspiration, and fulfillment. Tune in to reclaim your power and unlock your full potential!
Is Your Way In Your Way?
Breaking the Silence: Understanding Grief Beyond Death
Grief specialist Ligia Houben shares powerful insights about common misconceptions surrounding grief, revealing how it extends beyond death to include divorce, job loss, health changes, and even lost security. This enlightening conversation explores the 11 principles of transformation that guide people from pain to healing with practical tools and compassionate understanding.
• Thanatology is the study of death and dying in a society that often avoids these topics
• Grief manifests beyond death—through divorce, job loss, health challenges, and lost security
• Modern society has created distance from death, transforming it from a home-based family experience to a clinical process
• Cultural approaches to death vary widely, with examples like Mexico's Day of the Dead celebrations
• The 11 principles of transformation include accepting loss, living your grief, developing spiritual dimensions, and modifying thoughts
• Creating meaningful rituals helps process grief, like memory boxes at family gatherings
• Grief follows no timeline—we don't "get over it" but learn to integrate it into our lives
• Changing our thoughts about loss can profoundly impact our emotional experience
• Opening our hearts to mortality helps us prioritize love and meaningful connections
Check out Ligia Houben podcast "Transforming Grief" available in both English and Spanish on all major platforms, and visit her website at ligiahouben.com to learn more about her work and books.
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Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like to welcome you to Is Your Way in Your Way podcast. And I'm your host, and my name is Cassandra Crawley Mayo. For those new listeners out there, I just wanted to let you know I had an interesting question before I start this podcast. And somebody wanted to know why did I start it? And I thought that was a no one has ever asked me that. And I started it because I was in my way. I had so many limiting beliefs that have mitigated, that had prevented me from moving forward with what I believe my life was ordained to do. Like number one, I always wanted to write a book, and it took me forever to write a book because of those limiting beliefs. And I just want to share with you all that are new to talk to you about. First of all, before we dive in, I wanted to take a moment, and I'm not done that, is to thank you. Thank you so much for being a part of the Is Your Way in Your Way community. Actually, this is becoming a movement. And this podcast is all about helping you move past these barriers so you can truly design and start living your best life on your turns. In other words, we're going to get honest about what's holding you back. So it uh so I say that to say if pain, if you're holding on to pain, confusion, unanswered questions, grief, know that you're not alone and help is on the way. So let's step into this moment together. Now I'd like to share with you that we talk about topics related to personal improvement, self-improvement, sometimes business improvement, and also it's topics that that will I say will enable you to do some self-reflection. You may hear a topic that's that's holding you back. And so I want you to just be real with yourself, be really open with yourself so that you can start healing yourself if that's what it's gonna take for you to start living your best life. So today, our topic is about biggest misconceptions people have about grief. And I'm gonna introduce you to our guest. Her name is Lisia Hubbard. Hello, Lisia. How are you?
Speaker 02:How are you, Cassandra? This is so, so special to be in your show today.
Speaker 01:Thank you so much. I am so glad to have you in the show today. I'd like to read your bio because I want my listeners to understand what qualifies you to talk about this subject about grief. What's the biggest misconception that people have? So, Lisha Huben, she is a grief specialist. She's a thanatologist, and I'm going to have her explain what that means. Life transitions coach and author, whose life's mission is to help others move from pain to healing. Sparked by the loss of her father at age 12 and later her mother, she created the 11 principles of transformation to guide others through loss with love and resilience. Her internationally acclaimed work, including her newest book, Allow Me to Live My Grief and Heal From the Inside Out, offers hope and practical tools for those navigating life's most challenging transitions. Oh, so Lysia, let me ask you this. What does that mean? I even had to look that up.
Speaker 02:What is that? Thank you. Well, yes, you're so right that we are not familiar with that word because, as you may know, Cassandra, we live in a death denial society, so we do not use that word much. So phenatology is the study of death and dying. So phenatologist, it's someone who has specialized in death and dying.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Wow, this is gonna be great. Someone that has specialized in death and life. Wow. Well, let me ask you what I know that your your father, uh, we talked about that, had passed when you were at a young age. What else inspired you to be a grief specialist, life transition coach, and a thnatologist? Share your personal story and how it how it inspired you to do so.
Speaker 02:Thank you for the opportunity because this is so close to my heart. So close to my heart to be able to help others going through grief and loss. And how did I, I will tell you, how did I discover my mission, my purpose in life? I was studying, I live in Miami, Florida, and I was studying at the University of Miami. I was studying psychology, and then I wanted to add another major religious studies, because there was a course, you know, in that department that attracted me like a magnet, Cassandra, like a magnet, and it was Death and Dying. And when I Death and Dying, so when I took that course, it opened, it opened not only my eyes, but my heart. So each time I went to class, I would cry. And I would cry, and because I had not faced, you know, the word death and dying and grief. And I was like, grief? What is grief? You know, all these things came to me so strongly that that's when I decided in that classroom, so it was a blessing in disguise, right? When we say that, I discovered in that classroom, wow, I want to do this. This is my mission in life, and that's how I you know developed into my studies and all that. I became a phonatologist, I specialized in grief, and then the other my other passion, if you will, is working with older adults. I love older adults, so I also study gerontology, which is the study of aging. Yeah, that's why I mentioned life transitions, because we go through so many transitions in life. One of them, of course, is aging, taking care of our aging parents. So I put together, you know, my my way of working with people is moving through transitions, and if in one of those transitions, there is grief, there is loss. So we work together, we use the resources we have inside, because we all do, and then to be able to transform that loss and transform our lives.
Speaker 01:Well, let's talk about grief. Is grief only about losing a loved one?
Speaker 02:Absolutely no. And that is, and thank you for asking that, because that is a huge misconception that it is only when we lose a loved one. Because, you know, when people knew that I was doing this, that I was starting to work in the field, they would say, like, you're gonna be working, you know, with the death of a loved one. You know, people think, you know, like I how depressing I'm like depressing. First, on the contrary, this is so sacred. This is from heart to heart when you work with people losing a loved one. Now, we want to open our minds to other types of losses, Cassandra. There is the loss of when you lose your partner through divorce or a breakup, there is the loss, loss of health when we you know develop a health condition, an illness. Yeah, there is the loss of a job, you know, when we lose our job. There is a loss when we experience natural disasters and we lose, we may lose our home. These are things that are tangible, you know, like this happened. However, we may also lose hope, we may also lose a sense of security. You know that happens when when we went through COVID, you know, the pandemic, yeah, we experienced so many types of losses, Cassandra. Loss from the from the concept of what safety meant when the concept of our assumptive world, the world we knew, it shattered. So all those things, and so many, there are different types of losses, and we don't talk about it because sometimes people say, I am depressed, yeah, I'm depressed, and then we start talking about losses, and we do a history of losses, and then what they realize is that what they are, they are greedy, the loss that they experienced.
Speaker 01:With your study with um um thanatologists, what is it that my listeners can learn from that particular study that you've done? And and because you are a thanatologist.
Speaker 02:Okay, thanatology is the study of death and dying under different because we can't study death under so many different concepts, but when we talk about the sociological perspective, is in how we see death in society. So we start seeing that how it has changed, you know, from other times. For example, Cassandra, before people die at home, yeah. People who die at home, they would even uh build the caskets, the family would build the caskets, they would place the caskets, what they would call the parlor, you know, it would be like it's like a living room, you know. That when my father died, you know, I was living in Nicaragua back then, and we had the wake, we had it at home, uh-huh. We had it in the liver room at home, so but we're talking about medieval times that was so different. The when people died, the family would be surrounding the dying person. So, what happens with time and and technology and medicine and all that, that sometimes, and it is a blessing that so many things can be done now. However, there has been a distance with death. There has been a distance, and that's why now that we have hospice, you know, that way that philosophy of care, that it's when you know, you take care of the dying patient, the dying person, and the family, and the idea is to keep them comfortable, you know, not to extend life, but keep them comfortable. And many times you have hospice. I had it with my mom. You have uh you have hospice at home, so people die at home. So we talk about all these different aspects, you know, of death. We talk about the culture, you know. For example, the Hispanic culture, you may know about how Mexicans they celebrate the the day of the dead, el Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead, and it is a spirit and a very unique ritual that they have, Mexicans. We do not have any Nicaragua, so it's very unique to that particular culture. Have you ever watched the movie Coco?
Speaker 01:No, I have not.
Speaker 02:Cassandra, I totally recommend it to you and all the beautiful people who are watching us. Coco, and it's an animated movie, but it shows you the culture, it shows you you know what happens the day of the dead, and it has to do a lot with how people grieve. It's it is beautiful, it is such a beautiful. How do you spell that? Okay, it's C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 01:Oh, T S N Tom? No, C S N Charles. Okay, C-O-C-O. Okay. C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 02:Okay, okay. It's it's amazing, it's beautiful. So we learn through different things, you know, about death and dying. We also talk because it's interesting. I learned about this, about my mission, when I took that course on death and dying, and eventually, after many years, I happened to teach it at the university. Okay, I taught death and dying, and the way that I taught that class was yes, it was about death. However, I emphasized life. I I said it to my my students that the more aware we are that we are going to die, that our loved ones are going to die, we may give even more meaning to life, you know, and we would live with more gratitude, more love, more ability to forgive. And it was a beautiful course because you know, I taught it several times, and and then I taught it online for another university, but that's what I did with my students, you know, for them to be aware, and they will share that the the topic of death, it was a taboo in their families, you know. Okay, people wouldn't talk about it.
Speaker 01:Well, let me ask you based on your your education in that field and even teaching it, what are some of the things that my listeners could learn from your teaching and your knowledge that you don't think they're really aware of the importance of talking about it.
Speaker 02:It's not going to happen because that's one of the greatest taboos that people think that if we're going to be talking about it, it may happen, you know, about death. And it is something that people have what we call sometimes phanatophobia, which is fear of death. So, something that we talk about is the importance of to start having the conversation, start having the conversation about death, because it is something that happens to us, it's part of life, it's the end of life, and it depends so much on our attitude, how we take it. Because sometimes if we push it away, if we put it on the shelf, it's more present, the fear is more present. However, if we sorry, if we talk about it, then we can have that conversation. There are different concepts based on your religion as well. Religion has a big impact on how we see death and dying. And for example, the concept of the afterlife, the concept of what happens near death experience. You may have heard about NDE.
Speaker 01:Yes.
Speaker 02:So, what happens then? Because it is based on so many studies. So, all these things, many people, when they are grieving and they they learn about NDE, that gives them hope because they feel that they're going to connect with their loved ones again, you know, after they die, they're gonna they're gonna come and you know and greet them. So there's so many concepts. We also talk about suicide in that course and the importance to again have the conversation because it is a taboo, people don't talk about it, even when they experience that loss. That is such a painful loss. I have clients who have lost loved ones to suicide, and they tell me, Ligia, people don't even want to ask me how I feel, because they don't even want to touch the subject, and people need to be seen, people need to be heard, and to have that conversation. And if someone, so I remember that's something that we said, you know, um, based on the textbook and what we we talked about. If someone mentions the idea that I don't want to live anymore, I want to kill myself, all those things. Many people say, I don't say that, you know, don't say those things, you know. No, if they are saying that, you want to hold the space, you want to allow them to talk about that because you don't know if they already have a plan, you don't know, right?
Speaker 01:Exactly.
Speaker 02:So it's important, Cassandra, to talk about these things, yeah.
Speaker 01:And and they don't, as you indicated, because it's like it's taboo, or like you talk about depression or suicide, uh, and everybody is different in regards to the death of suicide. There sometimes people we don't know what to say. And I remember I had a relative whose father passed, and you know, I went and visited, you know, like my parents did, I did what they did. And I asked the question, was there anything I could do? And she looked at me like I was crazy. And I sincerely meant that, but and I talked to my mom, she says, you just do, you know, because when it happens, people don't know what to do. You know, just kind of be there. You need to give them their space, feel them out, you know, because if you ask somebody, it's like, okay, and don't say, um, time will heal. You don't know, you know, you know, so that's why people are at odds of how do I respond to that? You know, from your experiences, how how have you responded or any thoughts on responding to someone who's lost a loved one? Now we already talked about you can lose a job, you can lose a divorce, a breakup, all of those things. But at this moment, we're talking about grief. We're talking about the grieving in regards to the loss of a loved one, because that's what your education, your knowledge, yes, what you've taught. And uh, so at share with us how would you, what are some ways or some thoughts you have on how you would respond to someone who's in a loved one committed suicide or a loved one who's lost someone? How would you respond? Or is there no certain response?
Speaker 02:Thank you for the question, because those things, you know, when you mentioned time will heal, and it's what we call euphemisms, euphemisms. People say things like to soften, you know, and to to make it sound better, and all those things, and people sometimes bring religious concepts, you know, they are in heaven, now they are with God, now they are resting, they they were suffering, all these things, and or even the even the I'm sorry, many people don't like that. So, because you know, I uh working with my clients, I went through the loss of my mom five years ago, and my sisters two years ago. So it's the best thing that we can do, and that's what I say because and I mean it with my heart. It's like I accompany you, my heart is with you, I accompany you with my love. I am here, so the presence is important. The presence is important, okay, not trying to fix them right because we cannot fix the bereaved, we cannot fix the grief, we can only accompany the bereaved, okay, okay. Yes, and when something, for example, as you said before, is there something I can do? And there are so many things we can do, however, the griever doesn't come and say it to you if they need you, they don't it's very it's very rare that they would do that. So, what is great that helps a lot is if we are aware of the needs they may have. For example, you have a friend that lost her husband and has two kids, you know. So you know that she takes them to school. Let's say that they don't ride the bus, they you know, she takes them to school, so you know that she has to do that, and after losing the husband, most likely that's the last thing she wants to do. So he come and say, you know what, for the next month I'll be taking your children to school. So you are offering something specific, you know, something that she will be so so grateful, or you can say for the next month I'll be doing your groceries, you know.
Speaker 01:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 02:So things like those, then that is you know, specific, and they would totally appreciate it because you know what? Now that I mentioned that, one of the things that can be the most painful, incredible, it's going to the supermarket after losing your loved one. Yeah, it's amazing. I have heard that. I remember when I experienced it after my mom because I was my mom's caretaker, because Cassandra, my mother was a centenarian, she died when she was 100 years old. Oh wow, yes, she was she was an apple in my eye, and so I remember after she died that I went to publics. You know, here is the very well-known chain of supermarkets, and I would love to buy for her, you know, pudding or jello, you know, those things. I remember the first time I saw that. Oh, I would bring her in her wheelchair, and uh, people loved her because she was super sweet, she would talk to everybody, and they would bring her, they would bring her donuts, you know. So the first time I went, and they were like, In your mommy and your mom, and just by the question, you know, and say I would say, you know, she died, and sometimes people felt so bad that they, you know, but going to the grocery can be very painful the first time, yeah.
Speaker 01:Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about your you have 11 principles for transformation of uh into from pain into hope, strength, and renewal. Let's talk about those principles.
Speaker 02:Those principles are, I love the principles, and I'll tell you how they were born. When I when I wrote the my first book about grief, yeah, it's called Transform Your Loss, Your Guide to Strength and Hope. When I was writing that book, you know, I talk about what losses are, as you said, not only death, what how grief is manifested, because it is not only through crying, you know, it can be expressed physically, you know, headaches, migraines, you know, even backache, insomnia, you know, so many ways to be expressed socially, isolating or going out, not stopping. Um, emotionally, of course, you know, different emotions, anger, sadness, guilt, spiritually, sometimes getting angry with God, getting angry life.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 02:Or on the other hand, you can find meaning. So, because again, grief is unique. And so I was writing the book, it has 60 real stories, but then I said, I want to give something to the reader, I want to give them tools to help them, and that's how they came to be the 11 principles. I started writing them, and then they were 11, and and touched my heart because I just stopped then, right? And it touched my heart because my father died on November 11.
Speaker 01:Okay.
Speaker 02:So when that happens, 11, like, oh my god, they were close to my heart. So I created them, and it's a methodology, you know. I it's you know, uh registered and also a methodology. I have I have done seminars, I do seminars, workshops, uh, online programs with that. And what is the purpose? The purpose is to help people take them from the beginning when they are facing a loss, painful, and we know that the hardest thing is to accept what happened. However, what is the country of accepting? Denying, resisting. How are we going to heal if we are resisting, if we are denying? So the first one is accept your loss, and that by itself is a process, and then that's the first one, and an acceptance is not that you don't care about it, that's okay. No, it's coming to terms with the fact, the reality, this has happened that is horrible, that is super painful. Yes, it is, it has so that's the first principle. The second one is because I acknowledge that there is pain, the second one is live your grief, live your grief. It is what has happened because grief is the natural and unique response to loss. So that however, with time, I realize that many people either they don't give themselves permission to grieve, to grief, and they want to jump the second principle, or society or family would say, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's enough time to you know stop crying, stop talking about them. That's about time you you know let go of your black clothes, whatever. You and if they are young, it's about time you start dating again. So, no, no, it's gonna I hear so many things, Cassandra. And if they lost a baby, oh, but you're young, you can have another baby, but I lost this one, so so many things, and but sometimes it is really hard to live the grief. That's why I called my latest book, Allow Me to Live My Grief, right? No time limit on it, exactly, and then and then heal and heal from the inside out because that's what it is. That's another misconception that people think that if you are grieving, it's gonna be worse. No, I was so mindful when my I lost my mom, and as I said, she was the apple of my eye, but I was so mindful grieving the loss of my mom that I will never be how I am, and and like this, I am you know so years ago, right? Because I was so present to my grief. So that's a second principle. Then the third is expand your your develop your spiritual dimension, and when I say spiritual, I am not talking about being religious. If you are religious, beautiful. However, I talk about being spiritual, the value of being grateful, of being able to forgive, of loving. Those are this the three spiritual tools I believe they're so powerful in our lives. So, what was the third? Expand your what? No, develop your spiritual dimension.
Speaker 01:Oh, okay, dimension. Okay.
Speaker 02:All these are if you go to my website, mythiahooven.com, there it says about you know the 11 principles, and there they all stated there.
Speaker 01:Uh-huh. Okay.
Speaker 02:Yes. And then the fourth one is express your feelings, express how you feel, you know, get rid of the mask, stop pretending, express how you feel. Number fifth, number five is share with others. Share with others. We are not an island, it's so important. This the support, social support, so important.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 02:Number six is take care of yourself because it happens, Cassandra. It may have happened to you, I don't know, but sometimes we just don't feel like. Taking care of ourselves after what we can, and it's so important. So that would be number six. Number seven, doing rituals because rituals help us. You know, rituals are symbolic, so they can help us. Number eight is live the now, just like being mindful, you know, being mindful. Live the now. Don't dwell in the past. Don't worry about the future. I don't say don't plan the future. That's different. But worrying is different. So don't worry about the future, live the now. Because the now is the only thing we have.
Speaker 01:Right.
Speaker 02:Yes. So that would be number eight. Number nine, which I love it because I I work a lot with that. Modify your thoughts. Because we are able, we are able to change our thoughts. We may not be able, of course, to change events. However, something that we can always change 100% of the time are our thoughts. And I've been I've been talking about this, Cassandra, for over 20 years. And I am always say that, I believe in that, and all that. When I confirmed it, it was the most painful time in my life, you know, after my mother died, it had been the greatest loss was my father, then my mom. But I was able to change my thoughts, and I was taken by that. I was like, oh my god, this really works. Because thoughts, emotions, actions based on how we think, we feel, and based on how we feel, we act. And I applied that so much after validating how I felt, I always validated how I felt. Then I would choose the emotion I wanted to feel, and generally it was peace. I know, so I wanted to feel peace because yes, we can feel grief, we can feel sad, yes, missing them, and at the same time, we can be in peace totally. So that helped me a lot. My thoughts then number 10th is rebuild the world, rebuild your world. So you build again your world after you have included loss in that world because it is part of your story. We cannot erase it, it happened, so we rebuild it again. You know, it's like when they say picking up the pieces, yeah, uh-huh. So we rebuild it, and then number 11th is visualize the life you want. Okay, because it's it's a choice, you know, it's a choice how we want to live. And and one of the things I ask people, you know, when we do the seminars, okay. I ask, please raise your hand if you want to be happy. Be happy. So that is the first, the first thing that has to be present if you want to live a better life. Like the will, the desire, I want to be happy. And when we do that, we can bring then our purpose, the meaning, the purpose, and then we can visualize that life.
Speaker 01:You know, there were two principles I I want to expound on. One was rituals. Can you describe like a ritual? Like, what do you mean by having a ritual? Give me an example of a ritual.
Speaker 02:Okay, thank you. Because rituals are doing something that has special meaning to you. I'll give you an example, something so simple. We have dinner. Well, supposedly, you know, we have dinner every every day, every night. We have dinner now. There is a dinner or lunch, depending how you celebrate, that happens every year that has a special meaning. Which one is that? We have a dinner that happens once a year that is very symbolic, and we celebrate.
Speaker 01:It could be Easter, Christmas, or Thanksgiving. Right. Uh-huh.
Speaker 02:So that is a ritual.
Speaker 01:Okay, all right.
Speaker 02:Something that an action that has special meaning. For example, you can come home, and if you are like me, that I love candles, you may come home and you know, just you know, you light a candle, it has a great smell, aroma, gives you an atmosphere. Fantastic. Okay, right. But if you lost your loved one and you get home and you go and you light a candle in front of his picture, and you say prayer, or you say some words, that is a reach.
Speaker 01:Okay, now let me talk about um number 10. Did you say build your world? Well, build it again, rebuild, rebuild it. Okay, what does that mean? Reveal your world, like how can one do that?
Speaker 02:Okay, rebuild meaning building, you know, you rebuild when you are building something because when we lose a loved one, and sometimes when we lose other things, our world feels that it shattered, that it's destroyed, that it's shattered. So when you rebuild it, you are putting the pieces again, you put the foundation again. When I do the seminars and the activity that we do, because I love to do activities with each principal, the activities I do with them is I use Lego blocks. Lego blocks, so it's like a metaphor, you know. When they are you know creating something with Lego blocks, they are building the same way they are building with Lego blocks, they can rebuild their life after a loss. So because with when a loss happens, and you know this, Cassandra, it's the life we had before the loss, yeah, the life we have now, and the life we'll have after a loss. Okay, so that's the life we are rebuilding with the loss inside of us.
Speaker 01:Okay, let's use Thanksgiving for a minute. I remember uh when I my mom transitioned, and Thanksgiving was big, and uh that's where I used to always go. I was always out of town. I was I never moved back to where I grew up, but I would always go back to where my parents were. And Thanksgiving was tough for me because my mom was the matriarch of the family, so she was the one to get everybody together. So, how could I reveal, rebuild my world around that particular holiday, for example?
Speaker 02:Thank you, beauty. You make such amazing questions. Well, you can create new traditions, okay? You can create new traditions, you can honor if there's a specific dish that your mom liked, did he did she cook? Okay, well, you can you can cook the special dish that she liked, okay, honoring her. Okay, you can find a recipe and you can honor your mom just cooking that dish, having that recipe that she liked, and then you make it present, okay. Because your mom, not physically, you know, she's not physically, but she'll always be there. So that is something. Do you know what else you can do? You're going to love this, you're going to love this Cassandra. And you can do this this Thanksgiving. When you have, let's say that you have it at home. So you invite people, and then at the at the entrance of your house, I'm trying to see if I have something here. Okay, I'm gonna show you something. Okay, I'm going to move this. No, well, I don't have to show it. I'm going to say it's a not because I don't want to move this, it's a chest. You know, you can place a chest at the entrance of your house. You know, there on a on a table, you put a chest and then or a box, but beautiful, make it beautiful. May even you can even decorate it a box, you know. You can go to Hobby Lobby and you can decorate it beautifully, right? And then place it there on a table and place some um like these blank cards, yeah. These blank cards with with a pen next to them, and then you say, Okay, write on that card something that you feel grateful for having my mom in your life, something grateful about my mom, and then everybody puts it inside of the chest, yeah. And then you have dinner, you have your Thanksgiving, you talk about you know the recipe, the dish, my mom, and you beautiful. And then after you guys have dinner, you know, with your family, then you go to the living room and you bring the box, so you place it in you know, there in the center, and then you start uh reading the different things. That it's such a beautiful ritual. I have said this for many years when because I do a seminar called Navigating the Holidays when we're grieving. Yeah, that is one of the of the rituals I share with families that they can do because we do this navigating the holidays before Thanksgiving. Because you we know Thanksgiving, you know, the holidays start with Thanksgiving. Yeah, and we we did it this year, November 2nd, at a funeral home. It was so beautiful, and I and I came and I brought you know examples with there, so people like that.
Speaker 01:Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 02:I have done it also personally, yeah, and it's beautiful. We you we love it because then you read you know all the things, how your mom touched different lives.
Speaker 01:Yeah, that's beautiful. I that's beautiful. Uh, because when we have funerals, um, homegoings, you know, people call it different things, and just to hear the remarks makes you smile, you know what they did, and you know, what the commonality about your loved one, and that does bring a smile and laughter to you. So I think that's an excellent idea around the holidays. And as you said, um visualize your life. The last thing is how how how do you want to feel? So all these all these principles I thought were great, but I no buts. The only thing I would just add is it's going to take time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it'll it'll it'll take time, you know, and if you really want to, I don't know if you ever get over the grieving, you're the grieve coach. Um I know I you know my mom's been gone about two to three years now, and something happened the other day, and I just started crying. And I was like, oh my gosh. So it's like an ongoing thing, and it always will be for even my dad. So I I I um so that as you indicate, there's no time, like you said, live your grief. There's no timeline, no timeline.
Speaker 02:There's no timeline, and thank you for sharing that because I mentioned that in my latest book, and allow me to live my grief. That um Dr. Rosenbad he talks about recurrent grief. Grief is recurrent, yeah, and it doesn't have okay. Today I stopped grieving, it's not like that. We we learn to live with our grief, yeah. We learn to live with it, but we don't have sometimes a tsunami that appears out of nowhere, exactly that was a trigger, and then we felt that, and then that's a huge tsunami. Some other times we may have a small wave, yeah, and sometimes it's just there, but it's a companion. The moment that we let go of the fear of grief, that we understand it happens, and we learn how to live with that, we are able to move from a place of suffering to a place of honoring with love, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 01:And I also know that individuals that have lost a loved one, they also can find their purpose, or they'll also start realizing life is short. You know, I better give, I better get going tomorrow. It could be my day, you know. Um, so I I like the the the um what did I call it? I'm like, what what is that word? What you do, the study of your um phenotologists, that study about the living and the dead, and how no, it's it's a study of death and dying.
Speaker 02:Dying, death and dying, dying, yes.
Speaker 01:Okay, okay. Um, so that means the transition part is the dying. Yes, right.
Speaker 02:When like you said, you you you have a passion for the elderly, yes, and and it's like I used to be before taking care of my mom when she got older, I was a Vitas volunteer. Vitas is a hospice, and it's when when you accompany people when they're dying, that can be so sacred, and it's a process, you know, and we talk about what it is a process and what involves. So there's so many things, the so many things, but what I suggest so much to your audience, to your beautiful audience who's listening to this, to open their hearts, to open their hearts to this reality that will happen to all of us, yeah, to loved ones, and to give more love, to fight less, to to you know, to not to focus on problems and challenges, on you know, no, to open our hearts more to love.
Speaker 01:Yeah, because at the end of the day, exactly, right? Exactly. And I in my book I wrote, uh, I didn't write it, but there was a I I permission to write it called The Dash. And I don't know whether you've heard of that, but it's it's actually a phenomenal poem, and it talks more about what did you do during your dash, not the beginning, not the end. How do you want to be remembered? What's your legacy? You know, so I I thought that was great to end on about the dying and the death, how you studied that, and uh, and just the work that you're doing around this, I think is beautiful. And many people, many people will be blessed by what you've done and the outcomes that you've been providing for people because death is inevitable, you know. Like you said, we're all gonna die. Yeah, yeah. So, Lisa, tell us again how we can contact you. How can you be contacted?
Speaker 02:Your website, yes. I have the website that is my name, Ligiahuben.com. And I I am also very present on social media and Instagram, Facebook. Oh, I want to say something because I have a podcast, it's only audio, it is not video, and it's and it's bilingual, you know, in Spanish and Spanish and English, and it's called Transforming Grief.
Speaker 01:Okay, transforming grief.
Speaker 02:It is in Spotify and you know in all audio platforms, and it consists of short messages between six to fifteen minutes, okay, short on different topics regarding grief, different topics, and I have the same topic in English and Spanish, and they are titled. So if you go to the you know to the podcast, you may choose what you want to hear about, you know. Yes, so because what I wanted to do, and this was after my mom died, what I wanted to do is for the griever to feel accompanied, you know, to feel accompanied and understood, you know, validated. So that's the purpose with the podcast. So I invite you, you know, to listen to it and to your audience to listen to that as well.
Speaker 01:I am so glad that you said that, uh, because I'm gonna put that in the show notes that you're bilingual, yeah, so that exactly, yeah, you can hear it in Spanish and in English. One more question before we close. I live near a cemetery, and every now and then I'll hear people singing. And what I did hear that Hispanic, and I don't know how true this is, they will go to their loved ones' grave and have a celebration and sing.
Speaker 02:Is that is that well, maybe they are Mexican, they may be Mexican.
Speaker 01:They could be Mexican, okay.
Speaker 02:All right, yes, how interesting you asked that. So you may want to well, first check that movie I mentioned, Coco, because it's so cool, it's adorable, adorable. And then, you know, uh, to learn a little bit more about the day, the day of the dead. Okay, it's amazing, it's an incredible ritual they have, and it's it's so pot, it's so spiritual, so potent. They oh my god, they if they even make bread of the dead. So bread in the shape of a skeleton. No, it's amazing what they do. It's amazing what they do. So you you're going to enjoy learning about that. Okay, and cocoa, right? Cocoa, and cocoa exactly.
Speaker 01:Okay, well, Lydia, thank you so much. Lisha, thank you so much for your time, your your words of wisdom, uh enabling us to see what the misconception of grief is. And I'm certain that many of my listeners have learned a lot in regards to death because they know too that one day they'll they will be transitioning as well, in addition to their loved ones. So, like I always tell my my listeners to please, if you found this of value, which you have, I know. Please share it with someone and bless them as well. And hit subscribe and click like. I was so much appreciated. And sure, and Lisha would do the same. Thanks again, Alicia. Bye for now.
Speaker 02:Thank you so much. My heart to you and all the blessings. Thank you.
Speaker 01:Thank you. God bless.