Turning Pain into Purpose: A Survivor's Guide

Johanna Crawford shares her journey from domestic violence survivor to founder of Web of Benefit, which provided grants to help over 10,000 survivors reclaim their lives and define their dreams.

• Developing a "Dream Proposal" methodology that helps women identify career, housing, transportation, travel and self-care dreams
• Moving from thinking small to dreaming big — envisioning the life you truly deserve
• Understanding that self-forgiveness is the foundation for worthiness and self-esteem
• Creating the "pay it forward" model where each grant recipient helps three other survivors
• Recognizing that abuse exists on a spectrum affecting all women in different ways
• Understanding that self-care is an attitude and way of life that most women haven't adopted
• Taking small, actionable steps toward big dreams builds confidence and momentum
• Using the power of community to support women moving from survival to self-sufficiency

To learn more about Johanna's work, visit ittakesawoman.net or email Jo at jo@ittakesawoman.net to explore how you can use the Dream Proposal methodology in your own life.

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Chapters

• 0:50 Welcome to Is Your Way In Your Way
• 4:50 Johanna Crawford: Turning Pain into Purpose
• 10:23 From Crisis Shelter to Creating Change
• 20:26 The Dream Proposal Framework
• 32:49 The Power of Paying It Forward
• 40:15 We All Deserve Our Best Life
• 44:56 Beyond Physical Abuse: Understanding All Forms

Transcript

Cassandra: 0:25

to welcome you back to Is your Way, in your Way, and this podcast is where we break through self-imposed barriers or limiting beliefs may sound more familiar for some of you and step boldly into the life God has ordained for us. I'm your host, cassandra Crawley-Mayo, and today we're diving into a conversation that will inspire and challenge you to define what's possible in your life. Now I have a special guest today. I'm going to introduce her in a moment, but I'd like to tell you what our topic is we're going to talk about. We all deserve our best life.

Cassandra: 1:09

Now think about this what if the key to living your best life is already in your hands, but fear, doubt or past pain kept you from using it? Imagine surviving the darkest moments of your life and then turning that pain into purpose, not just for yourself, but for thousands of others. So today's guest has done exactly that. She is a powerhouse, a visionary and a true example of what happens when you step into your calling, and today she is here to share how you can unlock the life that you truly deserve. And welcome to the podcast, johanna Crawford. How are you, jo?

Johanna: 1:58

Oh, thank you so much, and thank you for that very kind introduction.

Cassandra: 2:05

You're very welcome. Before we got back on stage for my listeners, we were just chatting a little bit and I'm pretty excited about this topic. I've never really had a podcast related to this because, guys, you know, we talk about topics related to self-improvement, self-development, even business development, and it will enable others to use, have some what I call some self-reflection, and I'm also prayerful that, whatever podcast that you listen to, that this will resonate with you, will resonate with maybe one of your friends, and this is something that you really must share with them. So I'm going to give you a little background on Jo's story so you can see why she is qualified to talk about.

Cassandra: 2:58

We all deserve our best life Now. As I indicated, she's a visionary leader, an advocate with over 50 years of dedicated community service. She's the founder and executive director of WOB that stands for Web of Benefit Incorporated. She's transformed lives of over 10,000 domestic violence survivors through her innovative dream proposal and pay it forward programs. Under her leadership, she has been awarded 2,200 grants across 28 states, forging critical partnerships with over 120 agencies and securing recognition from CNN Heroes, the purpose prize in the Massachusetts Nonprofit Network, the Purpose Prize in the.

Cassandra: 3:48

Massachusetts Nonprofit Network. Now she's an author of it Takes a Woman to Empower a Woman. She shares her expertise on guiding women from survival to self-sufficiency. Her book provides a powerful roadmap for reclaiming financial independence and defining actionable steps toward a thriving life. So, with a deep passion for empowerment and an unwavering commitment to change, she continues to be a catalyst for transformation, proving that every woman deserves her best life. Wow. So, Jo, tell my audience about your backstory. Tell us a little bit about what was going on with Jo before she even started what I would call dedicating her life to community service.

Johanna: 4:40

Well, the backstory and I think, most women who are active in the domestic violence field which I was, Actually I don't call it domestic violence anymore, I call it intimate terrorism, because that's a much more just description and those are not my words and I can't tell you where they came from, but because we are terrorized by those we are most intimate with partners, family, whatever. So, anyway, my childhood was very angry, very alcoholic and very abusive.

Johanna: 5:22

And my father attempted to murder my mother when I was 13. And my brother, who's 14 years old uh, four years older than I am was in the house with me at the time and we got him off of her and out, and we three of us never spoke about it after, but this was in the late 1950s, so I'm kind of dating myself.

Cassandra: 5:48

Okay.

Johanna: 5:49

But the environment back then was that the police would come to our house and they would tell my mother to fix her marriage. And a fact I think that a lot of women don't realize is that until 1975, marital rape was legal.

Johanna: 6:10

I didn't know that horrifying, but anyway. Um, I did. Went to college, got married, worked my husband through graduate school, checked all the right boxes, had kids, did all those things and realized which I think a lot of us do when our kids are gone empty nest that there's more to life than maybe what is in front of us.

Johanna: 6:38

And I realized that at about age 48 and got divorced. But it took me until I was 55 to realize that I actually could do something about intimate terrorism in whatever small way I could. So I went to volunteer at a crisis shelter actually the oldest crisis shelter on the East coast in Boston, massachusetts and was in the crisis hotline office two days a week. And one of those days a woman called who had just gotten off the bus from Chicago with her two young kids and she had learned that we had a room with a bed for her and her two kids. So I went to pick her up at the subway stop and she was standing on the corner with her two young kids and a black trash bag full of all of her belongings. And she had gotten on a bus in Chicago and she had used every cent she had to get as far away as she could go, and that was Boston, all right. So I took her back to the shelter and got her into her room and she came up to the office later and she asked if I could help.

Johanna: 7:53

So we talked about what her problem was and she had fled so quickly. She had no driver license, she had no birth certificates. So, when you think about it, she did not exist legally. He was not able to get any kind of help or assistance. So I asked her what she needed and she said she needed $40 to send to Chicago, and it's forbidden for a volunteer to give a resident money. But, quite honestly, I've never been very good with rules, especially with rules. So I said you know, I'll think about what I can do and I don't know about you. But I never have cash in my wallet because it goes somewhere and I have no idea where it went. But, knowing that the universe is always in charge, I looked in my wallet and there were three twenty dollar bills that day.

Cassandra: 8:58

Oh my gosh.

Johanna: 8:59

OK. So as I was leaving for the day, I got her in a dark corner like doing a drug deal in the corner the two of us.

Cassandra: 9:11

Yeah.

Johanna: 9:11

I gave her the 220s and I said this is for what you need in Chicago, but of course she was going to need stamps and envelope and money orders and other things. So, I gave her the third $20 bill and I said use that for those things and then take your kids to McDonald's for a treat after now. This was this was in the year 2003, so McDonald's was probably more politically correct than it is today so.

Johanna: 9:41

I burst into tears. I burst into tears and I left to go home. And on my way home in a very nice car to a very nice house, I knew I had to do it in a bigger way. But I have also always been a for-profit kind of girl, started and bought and sold several companies. I knew nothing about nonprofits. But in a year we were up and running and and I started giving grants. And I wanted to give grants between $500 and $1,000 to women after they had been out of the abuse for six months, because it takes that long to be able to decide what you want to do and for the first step toward their biggest dream. But of course by then we needed to define what the biggest dream was. So we figured out how to do that and my biggest dream was a thousand a hundred women for a thousand dollars. I had no idea where I was going to get $100,000. I had nothing. But it turned out. 12 years of work, it was 2,200 grants for almost a million five.

Cassandra: 11:01

Wow, wow, jill, let me ask you when you went to school during that time you what do you say you got a divorce of, I guess about age 40 something. You're an empty nester Did you have any idea of what it was that you wanted to do? What were your dreams and aspirations?

Johanna: 11:27

You know, when I started working with survivors, it occurred to me nobody had ever asked me what my dream was. My dream had always been my husband's dream, and he turned out to be a big gun in the financial industry, which luckily allowed me to have enough money to start a nonprofit Sure. But what I did for work and I started a couple of companies and then I worked in very high end real estate was always subservient to his needs and the family's needs.

Cassandra: 12:08

OK.

Johanna: 12:09

Which at that time was right, but then it wasn't right anymore.

Cassandra: 12:15

Okay, Okay. I ask that because for my listeners, for them to be able to think about what is it that they wanted to do, what are their dreams and aspirations? And with you, things changed for you, you know, and I think back in those days and even sometimes today, it's all dependent upon what the spouse does. You know, our role we felt was to always be there for them, support them. We are one, and I'm not saying we're not, but then what about us? Like, if anything happens to the spouse, then we kind of struggle with well, what about me? Like, what can I do now? It's like you don't have your own life, You're living a life for somebody else. So I wanted you to share that, so that individuals know that it's okay to change and it's okay to define what your dreams are and aspirations and understand what they are and what is it that's stopping it.

Johanna: 13:16

so that's why it's not only okay, it's what we deserve. I mean we are. We are here to live our own lives and I'm not saying that, of course, the women that I worked with didn't have spouses, okay, but we are not here to live somebody else's life. Right and I think probably statistics would prove this to be so is that when children leave wherever they go to college or out to work or whatever they do and a husband and a wife are sitting across the dinner table from each other.

Cassandra: 14:04

Yeah.

Johanna: 14:05

Oftentimes there's something very big missing. And I think I kept myself very busy with the family and the kids and I remember specifically a dinner after a very hard day. I'd rushed home to create this wonderful dinner and my husband got up and said I need to go and do something in Japan. He had some customers and with the time timeframe he had to do that. And I'm sitting at the table. He had eaten his meal before I ever sat down and I'm sitting at the table saying there is something more to life than this and I deserve something more. And I know we have a limited amount of time and I know you have some questions that I'm happy to answer, but I would love love to be able to do a quick dream proposal that may only take five minutes for your women to be able to think that maybe they deserve the dream and maybe this is how they could go about doing it.

Cassandra: 15:30

Okay, okay, I would love that, because not. And I want to ask you, though, about the grants for a minute how difficult, or was it, to get grants?

Johanna: 15:47

Web of Benefit doesn't exist anymore because I retired, but the way we gave the grants was it had to be through a domestic violence advocate.

Cassandra: 16:01

Okay.

Johanna: 16:14

And for women who are in abuse who are listening to this podcast. There are state agencies to help you. There are local agencies. Just Google domestic violence agencies in your area. You don't have to live there. There is community outreach. These advocates have access to all kinds of other agencies. Advocates have access to all kinds of other agencies do not hesitate. There is help out there for you. So, because I had worked in the crisis shelter for two years before, I started by the benefit.

Johanna: 16:44

I knew a lot of women in the nonprofit domestic violence field in Boston and Cambridge so when I started the organization and I had created the structure of how it would work, I asked advocates to recommend women to me who they worked with so they knew their backstory who had been out of the abuse for six months and their backstory who had been out of the abuse for six months and they felt were capable of deciding what the first step toward their biggest dream would be. Because I could not afford to make mistakes. We had such limited funding, especially at the beginning, but funding was always always a fight. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Cassandra: 17:31

Okay, yeah, but I'm glad you mentioned, for women that are listening, or men or or they can share, that it's that the States, their agencies, they can contact. So, as you indicated, grants are not as as you indicated, grants are not easy to get now because they have the states that can support and help those initiatives.

Johanna: 18:00

There, there was no Organization that did what we did in the entire United States. Wow, so that. And we never gave cash directly to the woman. But, for example, we gave a sewing machine to a Korean woman who started her own shop and actually was in negotiations to buy the building. That was a $700 sewing machine.

Cassandra: 18:31

Yeah.

Johanna: 18:32

We gave $1,000. To a man who was going to build A food cart For a woman in Chicago. She now owns three Restaurants in Chicago.

Cassandra: 18:44

That was $1,000.

Johanna: 18:45

So what I found and I think Hopefully your listeners will find if you can define what your first baby step is towards your biggest dream, the second, third and millionth step will show itself itself.

Cassandra: 19:16

And if you have one, person that believes that you deserve the best and you have the power to create it. You can do it, okay, so that's a great segue to the dream proposal.

Johanna: 19:24

huh, so everybody will get a piece of paper and a pencil.

Cassandra: 19:28

Okay, Now for those listeners that are driving. Please don't do that. But what you can do, dear listeners, is just rewind. You can play this podcast. The podcast is on every podcast platform and I think this will be great for you to come back to it and get that piece of paper and a pencil. So we are ready, jill.

Johanna: 19:52

So when you do your dream proposal, you're going to want to fill in the blanks. Because we're not going to fill in all the blanks, I'm just going to tell you the headlines and you're going to put it on your refrigerator, so you look at it every day, okay, and you need to dream really, really big. Ok you need to dream out loud. Tell those people you trust, because you never know where help will come from. Ok so you're going to dream big, you're going to dream out loud and you're going to focus small.

Johanna: 20:30

OK one baby step at a time. It is not rocket science, it is simple. You have to be good and patient with yourself. And one baby step at a time. So the dream proposal has three parts. The first part is what is your biggest dream, and that has five subheadings that we'll go through. The second part is what are the steps and goals, and the third part is what is the first step that you will take tomorrow.

Cassandra: 21:08

Okay.

Johanna: 21:10

So, for the biggest dream what is your dream career? For example, I had a woman, a Brazilian woman we did a lot with translation because there were a lot of women that didn't speak English A Brazilian woman who spoke Portuguese and she had only finished fifth grade in Brazil and she wanted to be a doctor. So we wrote down she wanted to be. Actually, she wanted to be a pediatrician. We wrote that down under dream career. Okay, the second piece is what's your dream house? You may be living in your dream house, but maybe you want something to be different in the house. But the women that I worked with a lot of them didn't even have their own apartments yet. But we didn't dream about apartments. We dreamed about houses, big dreams.

Johanna: 22:08

Big, big. So where is the house? Are you living in the city? Are you in the country? Are you in the suburbs? Are you north? Are you living in the city? Are you in the country? Are you in the suburbs? Are you north, are you south? We designed the house. How many bedrooms, how many bathrooms? Does it have a pool? Do you have a dog? All those things, and you can do dream boards too, which are really fun Cut out pictures, put them the, but anyway, design yourself a house.

Johanna: 22:35

With the thought you deserve it and you can do it. And I'm not saying any of this is easy, but I have a sign that I look at, that is in front of my laptop right now. It says think abundantly. Energy follows intention. So you are defining the intention for your life on this simple piece of paper.

Cassandra: 23:01

Okay.

Johanna: 23:03

Okay, so we have. We have career, we have house. I'm a crazy car person, so this is what is your dream car. And some of the women that I worked with had two and three kids and they'd say I want a minivan. No, you don't want a minivan. No, minivans are allowed here.

Cassandra: 23:27

If you want a.

Johanna: 23:28

Porsche or a Maserati, or a Ferrari or an Audi Mercedes yes, no minivans. Or an Audi Mercedes yes, no minivans. So fourth piece is dream travel. I think travel is so important because you get to learn about other people and other cultures. The first trip is by yourself. The second trip is with kids or grandkids, whatever. And the last piece, which I have to say took me three or four years to come up with, was self-care.

Cassandra: 23:59

Okay.

Johanna: 24:00

Because the women that I worked with and so many of us, especially professional women with husband and kids who has time for self-care? So a lot of the women didn't have five minutes to themselves a day. And I write this in the book Self-care is an attitude, it is a way of life, and it is an attitude and a way of life that most women do not have. We are always putting somebody else first and we have been trained very well to do this.

Cassandra: 24:42

Exactly At a very young age. Yes.

Johanna: 24:45

So putting yourself first is not selfish. It actually means that you come first and that gives you more energy and a better attitude toward helping other people. And the kind of self-care that I spoke with to survivors was not a spa day because they couldn't afford that.

Cassandra: 25:12

Right, I'm glad you said that.

Johanna: 25:14

It wasn't any of that stuff. It was take a bubble bath, write in a journal. Actually, in my book there are lots of journaling prompts and lots of self-care prompts. Also lots of affirmations and lots of great quotations by women and some by men. So paint your nails, take a walk. Walking is so important. It's great exercise, You're out in the fresh air. So just little things to give you even a 15-minute, 20-minute break.

Cassandra: 25:54

Okay.

Johanna: 25:55

So those are the five pieces of what's your biggest dream. Then let's talk about steps and goals. I'm going to go back to the Brazilian lady, because she's such a great example. So she didn't speak English and she had only finished fifth grade.

Cassandra: 26:13

All right.

Johanna: 26:13

So she needed English classes. But there are free English classes everywhere. Google free English classes in your area, but she didn't have transportation money, so we gave her six months of subway passes.

Cassandra: 26:33

Okay.

Johanna: 26:35

But then she needed a laptop to be able to work on her GED. I must have bought 800 laptops from Best Buy. We could get a laptop for $249. So that was about half of her grant. With those two things she got her GED and we paid for her admission to community college, where she got a free ride. Oh OK, After community college she got into a four year college and was working through that before medical school year college and was working through that before medical school.

Johanna: 27:17

That is a thousand dollar grant with a woman who took the first step of riding on the subway to learn English.

Cassandra: 27:30

Wow, and she's a pediatrician.

Johanna: 27:34

Well, I last time I lost track of her. She was finishing four-year college and going on to medical school.

Cassandra: 27:41

Oh wow, what a great story.

Johanna: 27:43

Yeah, that's a $1,000 grant with an advocate, who was going to help her the whole time, with a group of women who knew that she deserved it and knew that she had the power to do it.

Cassandra: 27:59

That's great.

Johanna: 28:02

Ladies, please, please, believe that you deserve the best. One thing I found working in this field for 12 years, I thought I'd be working with self-esteem and, yes, there were self-esteem problems and I think all of our self-esteem has been damaged somewhere along our lives. But then I found it was worthiness, because if we don't believe that we're worthy then we don't believe that we're worthy of self-esteem.

Johanna: 28:35

But, I finally figured out. The real basis for all of our beliefs comes from self-forgiveness. I'm not talking about self-forgiveness for something you might have done to one person or something awful that you think you've done. I'm talking about self-forgiveness for everything we may ever have done or may think about doing, because we are human and we are, I believe, doing the best that we can do with the tools that we have. And if we can forgive ourselves for everything and just say I'm human, I'm not perfect, I'm very imperfect, but I still, I still deserve. I still deserve to be happy, I still deserve to be happy, I still deserve my best life.

Cassandra: 29:39

Wow, that's great. That's great. I love the, the dream plan, and I love you had a program called what pay it forward and yeah, and uh, what was it? Three survivors helping a survivor.

Johanna: 29:57

That's one survivor and we had a little agreement that they had to sign that says I will do this, and not only that, I will report what I've done.

Cassandra: 30:06

Okay.

Johanna: 30:09

I had phenomenal interns who helped do statistics for me, so we followed these women as long as we could and as well as we could. So we helped 2,200 women and each one of those women had 2.3 children. So that's like 6,000 women and children that we helped, and each one of the women that we helped had to help three other survivors. And I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about babysitting or driving to an appointment or, you know, helping with an application, just one-on-one, but to three women. So they were touching the lives of three other women.

Johanna: 30:58

And those three other women had 2.3 kids, so it all added up to be a huge number of lives that were touched. And we found and I found this with 50 years of volunteering volunteering comes back to you 10 times over. It's really almost a selfish thing. And being selfish I don't say it's a bad thing. It's the selfish thing to help people because it feels so good.

Johanna: 31:27

So, we found and it became, you know, almost like a daily thing. These women are helping so many, more than three because they knew that they could impact and it was so powerful for them.

Cassandra: 31:58

Right, yeah, yeah. And it's like you know in scripture you reap what you sell. Yeah, and it's like you know in scripture you read what you sell, and that's so true. And I was going to ask a question. But I can tell, like, how did you get women to help other women? But it's a natural thing, that's what we do.

Johanna: 32:19

It is so natural and I think sometimes we become. It's so natural and I think sometimes we become so laser focused, so myopic on the small things that absolutely need to be done every day that we lose sight of, do we?

Johanna: 32:46

maybe have an hour a week, or do we have, you know, two hours a month? Do we have something, and it doesn't have to be big. But trust me, and I'm sure you know this for sure, when you start out little like that, other opportunities are going to show itself and the connections that you make with other women yes it's it's life changing and it's not, it's not risky.

Johanna: 33:12

You don't have to go out and do something that's scary. There there are websites volunteercom. You can find in the school as a reading buddy one hour a week, there's. So many kids, animals, what? Oh my goodness, it just is. It does come back tenfold, it really does yeah.

Cassandra: 33:35

And I love the title. We all deserve our best life, and I like your dream proposal life. And I like your dream proposal how let's dream big. I think that is awesome. You talked about think abundantly. What is your career? Well, I'm just going to be a secretary. I'm just going to think big, like you said, like the lady wanted a van, like no, no, no, no, no. Think big. Think what you think is impossible, because all things are possible. And I love it how you talked about the career, the big house, the car you want. Don't think that anything's impossible. So I love that. And what you did with that, those goals and steps was that's what you shared with individuals that were survivors. That was part of the program.

Johanna: 34:37

Oh they, they each from from the dream career. We figured out steps and goals of exactly what was going to happen, and then the last question, which is you know what is the step you're going to take tomorrow? The question for them was what is the cost of the first step and what is the first step? Because they had to boil that first step down to less than a thousand dollars.

Cassandra: 35:05

Yes, absolutely.

Johanna: 35:08

Oh my God, the changes. And we did deposits for apartments that they never thought they'd have, a dream to get an apartment. They still dreamed of the big house, but the step and goal was to get an apartment.

Cassandra: 35:24

Sure.

Johanna: 35:25

And one of the most wonderful grants that I ever gave was to a woman who was suffering from PTSD and was basically homebound. And we finished the dream proposal and I don't remember I was doing a laptop and maybe an online class for her and I said come on, dream bigger. And she said I'd like a laptop and maybe an online class for her. And I said come on, dream bigger. And she said I'd like a kitten. Oh, and I said do you know how much it costs for a kitten and can you keep a kitten once you get one? And she said, yes, yes, and I've done all the research and because we never took any state or federal funding, it was all private funding, I could give a grant five minutes.

Cassandra: 36:14

Oh my gosh, Just something that that small. That's Max. Most of my listeners know Max. When I'm on a podcast, max decides that he wants to come in and be a part of it. So, joe, you've not met him, but my listeners are definitely aware of Max. I want to talk about your book.

Johanna: 36:40

It takes a woman to empower a woman book, it takes a woman to empower a woman. Well, the mission of the book is to empower women.

Cassandra: 36:54

The way I did with the grant.

Johanna: 36:55

Okay, but because Web of Benefit doesn't exist anymore, I can't be giving them a thousand dollars and I'm not in the position to be interviewing. But I and I put this out in every podcast that I'm on, If somebody is listening and wants to give me $5 million, I will start again, but anyway. Web of Benefit. The book it Takes a Woman. The book it Takes a Woman is full of stories like the ones I just told you about the women. The woman with the sewing machine Actually, she is also on the.

Johanna: 37:38

CNN Heroes piece if you want to watch that. So anyway, there is one chapter only that's on abuse. It's chapter two and that was the most difficult for me to write, but I really feel that all women should read it because it talks about all kinds of abuse. You know, the physical stuff is sometimes the easiest to heal from. The spiritual and the mental and emotional are way more difficult. But it's a very upbeat book. It's part journal, it's part book.

Johanna: 38:12

As I said, there are spaces for journaling, there are a whole bunch of self-care ideas, there are affirmations, there are five stories written by survivors for the book itself, and then there are lots of other stories that I have written about other women, a little bit about my backstory, but that's the smallest piece. So it's meant to be uplifting, it's meant to have great stories, it's meant to be empowering. Chapter four is all about a deep dive into the dream proposal. And then at the back of the book and I'm really proud of this there's a huge resource section. So there's free education, there's free legal, there's all kinds of domestic violence information, so you can buy it online anywhere. There's also an e-book, which I think is less expensive, that you can get from Apple or not, audible, but wherever you get your eBooks. So anyways, just a continuation of Web of Benefit in a different way.

Cassandra: 39:33

Okay, okay. So in other words, all that you shared, and even with your book, are the steps you need to go from surviving to thriving. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and I love that. And one other thing we talked about before we came on you made a comment that we all have been abused. We all have been abused. Would you elaborate on what that means to say that we all, like I think you indicate it's not just physical abuse, right?

Johanna: 40:15

Yeah, well, I believe that abuse is on a spectrum from small microaggressions all the way up to which would be intimate homicide. And we are born into a world of patriarchy, which means it's run by men. And then I speak about all the isms we have women have sexism, there's racism, there's anti-Semitism, there's LGBTQ rights.

Cassandra: 40:52

Ageism yeah.

Johanna: 40:55

Ageism, yes, yes, we don't want to go there, but we tolerate these things because they're systemic, they're part of our everyday lives, but I don't think there's one among us. I mean, I remember some of the bosses that I had when I was working, my husband through graduate school, the things that they would say to me. It just, and even my, even, my mom would say can't you just be nice? And I'm like, I think I am nice, but you know, those things stick with us.

Johanna: 41:34

And these, these little small micro, whatever they are, micro whatever they are, they stick with us and they change our core beliefs of who we are. And you know, sometimes we think and most of our core beliefs are pretty negative. I mean, if you think about the self-talk that we talk to ourselves every day, it it's really, it's awful, but you know, I'm not smart enough, or I'm not pretty enough or what, and if I'm not smart enough then I'm not going to try for that great job.

Johanna: 42:14

You know the core beliefs determine the patterns of our behavior, so if we can say okay, I deserve the best, no matter what. Then I can start to okay, I'm not going to say those nasty things to myself.

Cassandra: 42:34

Right.

Johanna: 42:36

But anyway the isms and down to real physical abuse. But when you think about emotional abuse, that's where your heart is hurt. Psychological abuse is where your brain is hurt.

Johanna: 42:56

So, it's not just the bones. And then there's financial abuse and even things that we don't consider abuse. Controlling behavior is so abusive and it starts off with okay, I don't want you to see your family or I'm going to pick you up at work. And that never gets better. It only gets worse. So I do believe that all of our self-esteem has been injured, if not destroyed, somewhere along the line by someone who we trusted.

Cassandra: 43:39

Exactly, and that's kind of how we started out. You're terrorized by the intimate relationships that you have, and I like the terrorism is not that he's hitting you every day, but not that he's.

Johanna: 43:54

But he can and he will, and we just don't know when. So that's, that's where the terrorism comes.

Cassandra: 44:03

Exactly, and then we teach people how to treat us is another thing. Absolutely, Absolutely, Wow. Well, Jill, please tell the listeners. Now let me ask you what are you doing now? Like you said, you're not no longer doing the. Unless somebody gives you $5 million, you'll start back. So what are you currently doing?

Johanna: 44:26

Well, I'm back to volunteering.

Cassandra: 44:29

Okay.

Johanna: 44:30

And I'm promoting the book as much as I can, and I have decided that any money that the book might make will go to women's causes go to women's causes. But I'm doing small volunteer things like mentoring a ninth grader who needs help with reading and writing. I'm doing meals on wheels and I'm walking people's dogs so they can keep their dogs when they're not able to walk themselves. And one of my great loves is being with my grandkids and being able to travel.

Cassandra: 45:13

And.

Johanna: 45:13

I'm doing both of those things.

Cassandra: 45:15

Well, that's wonderful. So if my listeners want to get in touch with you and kind of talk through the dream plan and what I would call the community services that you're doing, how would they do that?

Johanna: 45:29

I would go on the website ittakesawomannet and hopefully you'll put that up somewhere. You can reach me through that, or you could also email me at joe J-O at ittakesawomannet.

Cassandra: 45:49

Okay, okay. So, listeners, we are about to wrap up and there are just two, a couple of points I just want to reiterate. I loved it when Joe talks about we all deserve our best life and also to give ourselves some compassion. Be easy on ourselves. We're human, things are going to happen and don't be so hard on yourself. And also go back to the dream proposal and think big. Think big and, as I indicated in the beginning, listen to this podcast again and write that down, and nothing is too small for you. Think big.

Cassandra: 46:35

People say the sky's the limit, but I say the sky is not even a limit, you know. So I just want to thank you for your insight, your community efforts and work that you have done, the imprint that you have placed on many people's lives, and some lives you probably don't even know about, but if you think about all the survivors, the grants to the survivors, that's a lot of people. So kudos to you, joe, and listeners. Again, you know how to contact her. Her information will be in the show notes and I'll say, like I always say, bye for now and God bless.