Mentoring Across Generations: Unlocking Human Potential

When was the last time you thought about getting older with excitement rather than dread? In this eye-opening conversation with Dr. Debra Heiser, applied developmental psychologist and founder of The Mentor Project, we challenge everything you thought you knew about aging and human potential.

Most of us view life as a physical trajectory - we grow, peak early, then slowly decline. But Dr. Heiser reveals the extraordinary truth about our emotional development, which continues to rise throughout our lives. This explains why so many people report being happier in their 50s, 60s, and beyond than they were decades earlier. The reading glasses are a small price to pay for the wisdom, self-acceptance, and freedom from others' expectations that comes with age.

We explore how midlife and beyond isn't about fading away but rather bearing fruit through mentorship. Dr. Heiser distinguishes true mentoring (which is generative and intrinsically motivated) from coaching or advising. Through powerful stories like Nobel Prize winner Bob Lefkowitz discovering his "six degrees" of mentorship influence, we see how our legacy can extend far beyond what we imagine.

For listeners questioning their purpose or feeling stuck, this episode offers a refreshing perspective on finding meaning outside your job title. Whether you're approaching midlife, already there, or supporting someone who is, you'll gain practical insights on lateral mentoring, creating your legacy tree, and embracing each stage of life with anticipation rather than anxiety.

Ready to stop seeing aging as something to fear and start seeing it as your opportunity to thrive? Listen now and discover why the second half might just be your best half.

Get ready to break free from obstacles and live life on your terms!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Is Your Way In Your Way
• 2:02 Meet Dr. Debra Heiser: Aging Expert
• 5:37 From Depression to Happiness: Reframing Aging
• 9:48 The Emotional Journey of Aging
• 15:08 What Is True Mentoring?
• 20:19 Legacy Trees: How Mentorship Creates Impact
• 27:02 Finding Identity Beyond Your Job
• 35:15 Thriving Not Just Surviving With Age

Transcript

Cassandra: 0:25

Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast and yes, that's the name of my book, is your Way In your Way, and, as many of my listeners are aware, it's a self-discovery guide for women on how to restore yourself, learn from your experiences and be your true self again. And it's also those women who are stuck. You know there's something that you've been wanting to do, or you know your soul is pulling you to do something. Is it to write a book? Is it to get out of a toxic relationship? Is it to minimize those negative thoughts that's preventing you from moving ahead or doing what it is that your dreams are?

Cassandra: 1:11

So that's why, on here, we just kind of talk about topics related to well, I would say, enabling you to get out of your way, so that you can and so that you will start living your best life on your terms, and we have topics related to personal improvement, business improvement and also these topics are going to enable you to do some self-reflection. And so today we're going to do something a little different today and I am super excited about our guest and our topic is going to be a transformative journey of aging and mentoring, and this is all about human development. And who better to talk about that is my guest, Deborah. And Deborah, please pronounce your last name for my listeners.

Deborah: 2:04

Sure. My last name is Heiser.

Cassandra: 2:06

Heiser, okay, deborah Heiser. I wanted to make sure and before guys, of course, before my show starts, I always want them to pronounce their name so that I won't mispronounce the name. But, deborah, I'd like to welcome you to Is your Way, in your Way, and how excited I am to talk about ageism and mentoring. So thanks for coming on.

Deborah: 2:28

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here on your show.

Cassandra: 2:31

Thanks for having me, yeah sure Now, listeners, what I want to do now is to give you a little bit of Deborah's background, just so you'll have a point of reference as we move forward in our conversation Now. Deborah Heiser, phd. She is an applied developmental psychologist, a TEDx talker. She's an aging specialist speaker, author and the visionary founder of the Mentor Project, with a profound focus on aging and human development. Her groundbreaking research has earned her international recognition, including awards for her work in depression identification and dementia. Her expertise has been featured in outlets like the New York Times and Thrive Global, and she continues to inspire through her teaching and consulting. She's passionate about unlocking human potential. That's why I said we are really connected here, because I am too.

Cassandra: 3:32

Her innovative insights bridge generations and redefine the concept of mentorship, making her a powerful voice for change. So listen, guys, let's get ready and be moved by her wisdom. And practical strategies for creating meaningful impact All righty now. And practical strategies for creating meaningful impact All righty now. So I actually changed the topic a little bit. Initially, we were going to talk about how we were all built to mentor and we are all built to mentor, and Deborah is going to talk about that. But I'd like to know before she started the work, like on before she worked on what I'm calling unlocking the human potential. Deborah, what was your life like before you started doing the work that you're currently doing?

Deborah: 4:22

Well, I was a researcher in the field of aging and I looked at everything we don't want to have or get. So I studied depression and frailty and dementia and and I studied palliative care, sort of end of life issues, and so it was very different because I was looking at everything through a sort of a physical lens and I'm now looking at life through our emotional lens, which is something most of us never talk about. And the first part of what I was studying is stuff that's really scary to most of us and it's something that we think we have to look forward to and it's not Now, what propelled you to want to do this type of work?

Deborah: 5:13

So I was. I didn't even know what a psychologist was, and when I was a teenager, my grandmother was in an assisted living facility and I went down to visit her and she wasn't herself. And so the person who was there said, don't worry, we'll fix her. And I was like, what do you mean? And she said, well, I'm a psychologist and you know she's depressed. And this is a woman who was. You know, I could pack a bag of just shoes and wear all of her clothes when I was there. She was fun and really just everything that a person would want to be around in terms of enthusiasm, and so I was like you can fix her? And she said, yes. So the next time I came down, just a couple months later, she was better, she wasn't depressed, I want to fix grandma's.

Deborah: 6:07

So I changed everything I was doing. I'm back to school and that I want to become a psychologist and I want to focus on aging, and that's what really got me interested in it. But I thought all we had to look forward to was fixing depression and dementia and frailty, and all of the things that I was thinking were what my future was going to be. So that's how I started, and then I later to look at what we have to look forward to. Which is really what we have to look forward to. Most of us don't have to look forward to depression and dementia.

Deborah: 6:46

Most of us to being happier as we get older.

Cassandra: 6:49

This is good. This is great. The reason I asked you and I want my listeners to hone in on. You know, a lot of you are focusing on what your passion is and what is it that you should be doing, and we kind of get fixated on that. And I say that because I was. I was really focused on what it was. What was it that I should be doing? And as I look back on it, I realized everything I was doing at that time was what I should have been doing.

Cassandra: 7:20

And so Deborah had gone to see her grandmother and just that experience there triggered her to say you know what I want to get into this aging? So I'm saying that to you guys, because don't think things that you are thinking about doing is crazy. We're very intuitive as women and because of that, we know exactly, perhaps, what direction we should go in. So don't fight it, Just go for it. Get out of that comfort zone, I would say.

Cassandra: 7:50

And then, for listeners on the phone that are listening to me, it took me forever to write my book. And then I would say to myself, why am I doing this? Like, oh, who wants to hear my story? Or well, you know, I don't want to do this because I'm getting older, and because I'm getting older, people may not receive me as well. So, in other words, Deborah to me is is going to talk a little bit more about why getting older for some people is negative, or what do you think? Because of your age, you can't do this and you can't do that. So, Deborah, with that said, um is when one of the things you said that the most precious natural resources us are people, Absolutely. Yeah, Now tell us about that.

Deborah: 8:58

So I'm going to start by saying why we think we should all have a negative lifespan. Ok, this is how I thought. Ok, because we think of our life as a physical trajectory which starts, you know, at birth, and then we learn how to walk and talk and do everything, and then all of a sudden, at a very early age, we peak and then we have a slow, steady decline.

Cassandra: 9:21

That's scary.

Deborah: 9:22

That frightens all of us.

Deborah: 9:23

That's why we all sort of shy away from wanting to talk about aging, because we can see that and the part that we can't see that is happening at the exact same time is our emotional development, and that starts at the same time at birth and that goes up, up, up and it never declines, ever.

Deborah: 9:42

Even though, like I need reading glasses I was just wearing them before I can't run it and I can't run as fast I'm happier than when I was 20. I'm much happier and that's how we should expect it. So when I was talking about, when I gave my TEDx talk, I talked about how we're wasting our most precious natural resources and that's us. It's not oil, coal and gas and stuff like that yes, our own selves. Every time we do not engage with others and get their intellect out, their values, their culture, we're burning down a library for every single person that we're not connecting with and getting that information from. And so that's why I think that until we start to see ourselves on this emotional journey which connects all of us, gets us to our better selves, we are really burning down libraries every single day.

Cassandra: 10:44

That's interesting and I like the fact that you're right as we get older, but how our emotional journey, or whatever based on what could have happened in as you indicate, is not a bad thing, as you indicated, because you're happier and you're happier perhaps, or and some of my audience listeners are aging and I'm not saying they're not happy, but they're more focused on I got to get married because I'm I'm getting old, I have to have a child, I should be, I should be far beyond where I am now, or you know, I should have been able to purchase a home Just a lot of things that they're putting on on why they should do this because of their age, rather than cultivating and embracing this right, you're right, yeah we all live by those check boxes.

Deborah: 11:55

right, I have to do, um, I have to maybe get a degree, or I have to get a job. I have to get married, I have to have kids, I have to get a you know, a different job I have to, whatever it goes. It goes on and on and on. We can make that list as long as we'd like, and that's attached to our physical, like what we're expecting to do as we get older, like that's part of that journey. Now, what most of us do, though, is we, we have anxiety about all that. That's why, when we're younger and we're going through all that and we're figuring out who we are, it's hard to be really happy, because we've got all this pressure Like I better do this, that and the other thing. Once you hit midlife, you're like I did it, I'm good, and you know what I?

Deborah: 12:34

don't care what anybody thinks about me. Haha, you know it's nice, we have that. That's what sort of flips for us after 40 is that once those boxes are gone, it's like a freedom that lifts from us. So if you're in the box checking phase of life, know that that goes away. Those boxes don't go on forever. If you don't, if you don't continue to check them off you can relax at some point and focus on yourself, which?

Deborah: 13:03

is really what is so wonderful about the second half of life? As you go inward instead of outward, in terms of how you're thinking about yourself, you're not as worried about the Joneses and what they're thinking about you. You're not as worried about well, I better have a nice enough house because somebody else might think something. It's really that you're much more focused on what makes you happy.

Cassandra: 13:30

Right, and for those who are not like in their 40s, what are some things you think they could do to help them? What I call going through a self-discovery mode. You know, I'm thinking back when I was 40 and I'm like, well, I was kind of there, but not there yet. I'm thinking about, well, I want to retire at 60 something, because that's what they say, you know we should retire, and for me, I'm like I'll never retire until I can't do anything else. Right, yeah, so why? Why do you believe any research or anything that's been? Uh, that you've come across where individuals are still not there, when they're in their forties, going to 50, they still focusing on I should have done this, I should have done that, or I should have that house, I should be married, what, what? Any research shows anything about that?

Deborah: 14:24

well, here's how our our development works and the stages. You might have a child that you see who walks at a very early age, and you may have another child that walks at a very late age.

Deborah: 14:36

it does not affect them later they're going to be the same later on it doesn't matter the same with our development and how we think about ourselves and how we form our identity and how we feel about all of that sort of emotional stuff. It has the same range. So you could be 40 or you could be 50, you could be 60. It doesn't matter. So give yourself some grace, because it's just like a baby walking or learning to talk. It doesn't mean a baby's a genius if it talks at six months versus 16 months. It's all the same in the end, and the same for our emotional trajectory. The real point is that we want to make sure that if you're struggling, right, if you're saying, oh my gosh, I'm struggling, is it a struggle that is like, oh, should I check another box, or is it? I'm really concerned about something?

Deborah: 15:31

Because, those are two different things. If I'm saying, gee, you know, I really wanted a bigger, better house, but I have one, but I'd really like a better one, you know, where are you with this? Is this a real true struggle? Where, you know, are you now saying I'm really focused on the Joneses and what they're thinking about me? So you know, a lot of that has to do with where we're going to get. Most, all of us do get to the right place and it's within a, you know, 15 year time bracket.

Cassandra: 16:03

Okay, Okay, good, Let me talk about um, um, I want to talk about mentoring. You know, because I know you do a lot of work on mentoring and before we got started, you know, I made a comment that once I read and I've mentored a lot in my life but I never thought of my parents as mentors, they were my parents. But when I think about and based on the work that you do, I'd like for you to, I'm curious to the difference between being coached versus mentor.

Deborah: 16:50

If you're getting paid, you're not a mentor. Now, that does not diminish any other thing. You could be an advisor.

Deborah: 16:57

This is what happens in universities and other places. You could be a coach but you're not a mentor. So I like to tell people look, it doesn't diminish anything by calling it something else, but it's making the wrong distinction if you have certain things that you're calling a mentor that aren't, and then it makes people say, well, it failed, it didn't work. So what mentoring really needs and this might help to distinguish it is it needs to be generative. We're built to mentor by the time we hit midlife and we figured out who we are and who. We've gotten rid of all those superficial friends that we don't need anymore. And we figured out who we are and who. We've gotten rid of all those superficial friends that we don't need anymore and we have just a tight knit group of friends.

Deborah: 17:40

We already know we have an expertise in something it could be culture, it could be values, it could be whatever it is, it doesn't have to be work related Then we have a desire to give that back without expecting anything in return from someone. Okay, and so that's generativity, that's volunteering, mentoring and philanthropy. Okay, so that's the first thing we need. The second thing is it has to be an intrinsically motivated relationship.

Deborah: 18:10

That means that there's no pay or reward or certificate or award or anything like that. You could be doing it, no one could ever know you're doing it, but you still want to do it. So the way that I think of that is, if I were to say, hey, cassandra, would you like to volunteer at a soup kitchen to give out free food and beverages to hungry, thirsty people, you'd probably say yes. And if I said now, cassandra, would you go volunteer your time at Starbucks to go give out food and beverages? Yeah, okay. So most people will say no because they would want to get paid to go to Starbucks alongside everybody else who's getting paid.

Deborah: 18:53

It's that feeling that when you give your time, whether you're volunteering or something, you don't need money reward for it, whereas if you're going to a job, you're expecting something from it. If you don't get a paycheck, you're mad. So that's another thing that's needed. We also need a meaningful connection. I have to like you and you have to like me. There has to be that relationship. It's like a friend. You know you could meet somebody and you really click and you're good friends with them. And you might meet somebody else who's just as awesome, but you don't click and that's okay, that's not a failure. We don't have to be friends with everybody the same with mentorship. We also need to have have trust. I have to be able to trust that you're not going to judge me for not knowing something and then not give me a raise if I'm at work right, or that you know I'm not gonna. You have to trust that I'm not gonna come and steal your stuff right and run off with it.

Deborah: 19:51

Yeah, um, and finally, we have to have a goal. So if you're just chatting, you're not mentoring. So if you're coaching, your goal is very specific. You're getting to do that and you may not like the person, even it may not be that meaningful a connection. Once you're done, you might be done, whereas mentoring it usually is a longer lasting impact, or that little bit that you got from that person lives on in you for a long time. But what they were giving you was so valuable and you took it in and you made it a part of yourself.

Cassandra: 20:26

Okay, okay. So how does mentoring help, like in the workplace and, and you talked about, in personal development?

Deborah: 20:35

how does that help so in the workplace, um, if we're really engaging in mentorship appropriately, it can really help us to rise, and it can also help us to keep the ball, keep it the wheel, from being reinvented every time. So the most impactful way, though, that it works is lateral mentoring. Most of us think we have to go find somebody who's going to pull us up, right, but that's usually the part that scares most people. They say I'm not going to tell somebody above me, I don't know how to do something.

Deborah: 21:12

They're never going to give me a raise above me, I don't know how to do something. They're never going to give me a raise, so it stops people from either being fully honest with a mentor or really opening up to somebody. There's that trust factor that's worrisome. So a lateral mentor is that you go to somebody completely in a different department or somebody who's completely lateral. It could be even somebody outside of work and you get their help and their expertise.

Deborah: 21:36

They are not above you. They're the same level, just with a different area of expertise, and we see this a lot of times with entrepreneurship.

Cassandra: 21:46

Yes.

Deborah: 21:46

Where you'll see a software engineer will say I need the help of a hardware engineer and that's how a lot of the new innovations happen. But that can happen in any industry at all. If you're writing a book, like you wrote a book, you may need an editor. Does that mean that person is above you? No, they're lateral to you. That person is going to help you with your book. Your book is better because of it. That's what I mean by how you'll work.

Cassandra: 22:13

Okay, what motivates one to mentor, though?

Deborah: 22:20

So we get motivated to mentor, and this is the personal development part. I have spoken with so many people who mentor and if you get to a certain point, you feel irrelevant, you feel like you're not productive. You feel like you're not productive, you feel like you aren't like why was I born? There's so much stuff we can gather and stand on top like Duffy Duck on top of the mound of riches, and it's not fulfilling to us. It's fun to gather it and collect it, but at a certain point we say is this it? Gather it and collect it, but at a certain point we say is this it? So, when we give back a piece of ourselves to somebody else, it makes us feel like we actually made a difference in the world. Right, and I'll? I'll give you an example the Nobel prize winner in 2012 or 2013,. Bob Lefkowitz.

Deborah: 23:13

He wondered why it was that he got the Nobel Prize so he decided to look at who mentored him and who he mentored, because he just couldn't quite figure it out right. It turned out that he, he made what was called. He called a legacy tree, and so it's just like an ancestry. com tree. You know where you look at all your ancestors, but mentors for him and he realized mentorship was the key. So he wanted to give back and he couldn't help but give back and so he drew it all out, including his mentees that he knew of.

Cassandra: 23:50

Yeah.

Deborah: 23:51

And published it in a journal. He went to a conference not long after that and somebody came up to him and he said hey, bob, I'm six degrees Lefkowitz. And he said what do you mean? And he said, well, five people work in between you and me. And Bob said, well, tell me about your work. And he did, and it was everything Bob had started and he got to see how far out his work went into what this person was doing, and even his words and the way that he talked about it were exactly how Bob had started it and he said that was one of the most meaningful things in his life was to find out that he mattered six degrees away from the work that he did. We don't usually get to do that. I mean, I really encourage people to follow what he did and make yourself a legacy tree, because we really do matter in the lives of others and our work and our thoughts and our values go so far beyond us, and so that's how we're built to do it. It's it makes us immortal.

Cassandra: 24:52

Bob is living on in people six degrees away from him, exactly, exactly, wow, what a powerful story. I'm curious, though, um, you talk about meaningful impact, like like Bob, for example, not even really knowing that you know the impact that he's made as he has, which is his legacy. And when I think about my listeners, who are in their way and there are things that they want to do, they want to give back, they want to, I always felt that having meaning in your life gives me more reason to want to get up in the morning. You know, or even why I'm here. You know there were times when I'm like, well, why am I here? I think you said that earlier like what? Why am I Am I here to? To just go to work every day, get paid, pay my bills, and then you get kind of discouraged. If that's, that's all that you do From your experience, how has your end of even people in your mentorship research program, people in your mentorship research program, how do they?

Cassandra: 26:16

I know the people that are mentoring can find meaning because they're giving. What about the mentees? What about that? The other side of the spectrum? How? What's the benefit for them? That you've seen, observed or have any stories?

Deborah: 26:29

So, for the mentors, first of all, whenever somebody is saying, hey, I feel a little bit like what you know. Oh, what is next? Am I? I'm in the grind, I'm kind of right. We all expect that. That is usually what propels us into doing what we're built to do, which is to give back, because we're like, oh my gosh, what now? And so that may have been what prompted you to write your book or something else which is leaving a legacy, all of those things do that.

Deborah: 26:55

So with the mentors they get to feel like they're being relevant right and they get to feel like they have purpose. For the mentees we launched their lives. In some cases Some students have patented. Some students have started their own businesses. Some students have learned how to do a research skill at a very young age. We're launching the lives of young people, while we're at the same time making ourselves relevant and leaving our legacies. So we're really all doing what we're built to do.

Deborah: 27:31

And it's that connection that makes it all work. What happens is most of us. I found that the mentors had no idea how to connect with mentees. Yeah, the one of the co founders of the mentor project said to me and he's one of the fathers of the firewall. Co-founders of the mentor project said to me and he's one of the fathers of the firewall, that's how you and I are speaking. He said you know, I'm getting ready to retire. I'm going to live on a farm. I have no access to kids. I can't go to a park and say, hey, kid, you want to learn quantum mechanics? You know, like that's never going to work. So all of these really amazing, high level, world changing individuals had no access to kids, and by kids. I say that loosely. I'm in my mid 50s, so pretty much there's a whole. You know, anyone who's a student is a kid in my mind.

Deborah: 28:19

But what we realized is that they, if I said wow, people would pay money to meet with these people. They are like world changers, astronauts to artists. If they can't find people to mentor, imagine the struggle of mentees. So we just needed to put them together. So mentees need to be lifted. They need that knowledge. Download value download Every grandma out there that has passed on the recipes and the holiday traditions and the religion and the culture of the family. That is rich and needs to be passed on right, and the same in terms of what the mentors are doing with their skills and knowledge as well. So we need it all to happen.

Cassandra: 29:10

Okay. So for my listeners, how you know, let's say there's several of them that they are mentoring and probably don't even know it until you know. They're listening to this conversation and realizing it, but they want to do it on a bigger scale, a larger scale. Just listening to this podcast, they're like you know what? I have a lot to give. Much is given, much is required, and I like to get into a program like that so that I could give. I always wanted to give, I always wanted to help. What programs? How would you guide them or suggest to them how they could get into the project you're doing? Or just reaching other individuals where they feel that they can support and help them?

Deborah: 29:55

Well, I'll say there are several ways. First of all, reach out to the mentor project dot org, and you know we're free for all students. Ok, reach out to us. There may be ways to volunteer. We're always looking for ways to connect with individuals. But the other thing is and it's easy and people are probably doing it and they don't know it and that is lateral mentoring. A lot of people that you know need help and when you start to pick up on, hey, there's somebody who. I think I have good information for this person.

Deborah: 30:33

I'd like to help them out that's called lateral mentoring Then you can help them out. Likewise, if you have a question, accept the help from someone else. So do this in your community. If you have a faith-based place, a house of worship, that's a great place. There are tons of other organizations. Get involved in local organizations and family. It is likely that you have some relatives. You might have nieces or nephews, grandchildren. You might have friends who have children. You might have friends yourself that you are probably doing this.

Deborah: 31:17

You're, you're likely, mentoring a lot of people. You just don't acknowledge it and you don't get the rewards of it. You don't get to feel good. You don't get all of the benefits which, when you mentor, you get the benefit of better physical life and a better emotional life in the long run. So if you're able to acknowledge it, you're going to really, really be much happier. So you do not have to have a formal organization. You can do that. One other thing is that you are mentoring in a by doing your podcast. So as long as you're getting your voice and your word out there, you are mentoring. I call that modern mentoring.

Cassandra: 31:58

Now that we have technology, they didn't have that back, you know, when they were developing the term mentor they were developing the term mentor, right, right, and you know what and I like the part when you talked about the meaning in life comes from feeling connected and the mentoring you know you're feeling connected and also you talked about you can find meaning in life outside of the work that you do. You know, like a lot of us identify ourselves with the work that we do. Yeah, you know, and and I'm not and I'm, I'm a witness for that I say, well, tell me about, well, I'm such and such and such, I'm like that's, that's not who you are, you know. But but tell me your work identity comes from your passion, fulfillment and, you said, your productivity, you know. So if someone asked you Deborah your identity, you know, what would you? How would you describe your identity? How would you identify yourself?

Deborah: 33:06

So I would identify myself as a mom, as a wife, as a as an educator, as a person who has a lot of close connected friends, as a person who cares for others. Okay, I think the last thing that I tend to identify myself with is is my job. I try to identify with the components of my job that I like about myself, that compelled me to go to that job, which tends to be that I care for others and I I want to, you know, be connected with others.

Deborah: 33:44

So you know, yeah, I thought that life had to be making an identity card which was like a business card and I lived my first half of my life like that and it's very hard then, when you leave and you go someplace and you're trying to talk to somebody, to feel value within yourself If you're only identifying with your job, somebody to feel value within yourself If you're only identifying with your job. It feels much better to be able to identify with the parts of you that you feel good about.

Cassandra: 34:20

Right and I like that answer. I thought that was great because a lot of us do identify ourselves by the work that we do, opposed to being, you know, a mom or single mom or in a sorority or just doing different things, because that provides more meaning. And I recognize too, when I first started working, trying to get out into the workforce, that was meaning for me because I was trying to learn and you know, new into this and into the workforce and all of that. But as you progress and, as you indicated, as you get older emotionally and what you've learned goes, goes up as well. As you talked about the age, you know the aging factor, how we put it's like a negative connotation, you know, like, oh, she's old, you know. And I can also remember being a lot younger and thinking my mom was old, like, oh, she doesn't know she's, she's old, you know. But yet you know the work that you do. The research that you've done about ageism is a good thing.

Deborah: 35:29

I think that I got tired of going to cocktail parties and everybody wanted to run away from me because, you know, nobody wants to be around an aging specialist. Yes, I think that, if we can. You know, the one biggest prejudice that we all have is against our future selves, and that we are prejudiced against old age, and that's the one thing we all strive to have in our lives. It's the weirdest thing that we put ourselves down before we get to where we want to be, in the place that we want to be, in the place that we want to be, and so it's really to me. That's what I want to do is to have a paradigm shift where we start to look at middle age and later as the time in our lives when we are trees that are forming apples that are ready to be dropped as wisdom to the rest of the world.

Cassandra: 36:26

Exactly Striving right, Thriving, thriving not just striving but thriving, and I like that as well because of the listeners at the age that they are at, I don't know, but to see it as number one, blessing that you're at the age that you are. Number two just think of all that you have, the knowledge that you've gained, and also think of the connections and things that you could do to be a blessing for others. And even, like you talked about the mentoring program, I didn't think my really mentoring. I didn't think about it as that way. So therefore, you've changed my perspective in that area as well. How else, how can my listeners get in touch with you? Yeah, Contact you.

Deborah: 37:17

I'm on LinkedIn. You can reach me at Deborah Heiser dot com. At mentor project dot org. At mentorprojectorg. I'm in psychology today.

Cassandra: 37:35

And you can reach me on my sub stack, which is the right side of 40. Okay, great. So, in other words, transform transformative journey of aging and mentoring and, as I say, if you live for live tomorrow you're still aging. You know and also give back. When much is given, much is required.

Cassandra: 37:54

And, debra, I want to thank you for your time today and I want to also share with my listeners how their perspective on mentoring for some of our have changed a bit. You know it, especially the aging factor. You know, never think you're too old to do this, or I can't do that. Cherish and flourish with your age because you're here for a reason and figure it out what that reason is and just go for it and get the support, get a mentor or somebody that's doing something that you would like to do, so that they can impart some wisdom in you, just as Deborah did in us today.

Cassandra: 38:35

So, deborah, thank you so much for your time and for my listeners, I ask that you share this podcast with individuals, especially for those who are mentoring and you know mentors if you're working, they probably. Some organizations have mentoring programs for individuals, and I did with the company that I worked for and how helpful. That was as well. So thanks again and for those listeners, please like the podcast so that you can make sure that you hear more and you heard how you can get in touch with Deborah, and I want to thank you again and God bless and bye for now.