Forgiving Your Way to Freedom

Forgiveness is often advised but rarely taught as a practical skill with step-by-step instructions. Catharine Giovanni, a three-time award-winning author and survivor of trauma, shares her revolutionary forgiveness system that doesn't require confrontation or reconciliation with those who hurt you.

• Understanding that forgiveness is selfish—you do it to free yourself, not the other person
• Listing everyone who makes you angry and rating them from 1-10, with 10 being the most difficult to forgive
• Beginning with easier people before tackling your "dumpster fires" or unforgivable situations
• Using a specific mantra to forgive the person, the energy around them, yourself, and the energy around the situation
• Forgiving gradually (10-12 people per session) to avoid overwhelming your body's healing process
• Recognizing that energy from anger stays in your body until you actively clear it, affecting your physical health
• Understanding that forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting or believing the other person was right—it means freedom
• Learning to forgive aspects of unforgivable situations, including forgiving yourself
• Seeing tangible results when memories no longer trigger emotional responses
• Acknowledging that you are worthy of joy, happiness, and your true authentic self

You are worthy to lead a life of joy and happiness. The anger is holding you from your birthright. Work this system and you will find your true, authentic self—the person you were meant to be.

Get ready to break free from obstacles and live life on your terms!

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Chapters

• 0:50 Welcome to Is Your Way In Your Way
• 2:00 Catherine's Journey Through Trauma
• 6:38 How to Know When You Need to Forgive
• 9:38 Forgiveness is Selfish: Do it for Yourself
• 13:10 The Japanese Water Study and Energy
• 17:47 Step-by-Step Forgiveness System
• 26:40 Forgiving the Unforgivable
• 32:59 Self-Forgiveness and Making Amends
• 39:17 Finding Joy and Worthiness After Anger

Transcript

Cassandra: 0:25

Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast, and many of you are aware that's the name of my book, so therefore I'm like, hey, why not call this Is your Way In your Way, to see whether you are in your way For our new listeners out there?

Cassandra: 0:42

I just want to share with you what this podcast is all about. It's for those individuals who are stuck, those individuals who, I would say, want to be an entrepreneur, want to be an author, but you just can't seem to get there. You're like what? It's something like pulling your soul, that you know you should be doing something, but you can't, even if you want to forgive somebody, and you know you should, but you can't, but you just don't do it. So we talk about topics related to excuse me, self-improvement, business improvement and also topics that will enable you to do some self-reflection, and I always say that I'm hopeful and prayerful that out of one of these podcasts, it will touch someone and enable them to say aha, and even pivot and make a change, so that that way they're able to get out of their way. I have a special guest on today and I'd like to introduce you to her so we can talk about that topic, Katharine how are you?

Katharine: 1:48

I'm fine. Thanks so much for having me.

Cassandra: 1:50

I appreciate it, yeah, and plus, because your name is pronounced like my mom's name, so, even though they're spelled differently, but she was Kathryn so, yeah, so, listeners, our topic today is forgive and flourish Discover the ultimate path to forgiveness.

Cassandra: 2:15

Okay so let me give you a little bit of Katharine's background, just so you can get a little point of reference before we deep dive into the questions. For her, Katherine Giovanni is a three-time award-winning best-selling author and speaker, renowned as one of the founders of the independent concierge industry, with over 12 books to her name including her latest, the Ultimate Path to Forgiveness Unlocking your Power the Ultimate Path to Forgiveness Unlocking your Power. She brings deep insights into resilience and the transformative power of unforgiveness. From overcoming stage three breast cancer to navigating a challenging childhood, her journey offers invaluable lessons in strength and healing. So look, so let's join me and her for this inspiring conversation and let's find some empowerment through our discussion about forgiveness. Wow, you know, in the beginning I talked about those individuals that are in their way about forgiveness, and I'm certain that Katharine's going to shed some light on that and talk about the power of forgiveness during this conversation, and also we would love to hear, Katharine, your backstory.

Katharine: 3:37

Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, the journey probably started in 19,. Never mind what year it was, we just won't go there. But I was in the eighth grade and I come from a very fickled family. They're filled alcoholism and I was bullied in school because I was different People don't like different and as and then, when my parents got a really nasty divorce, I tried to commit suicide from all the stress and I spent the next decade or so as one of those kids you know who I'm talking about, those kids who at one point they're just depressed and I kind of just bobbled through life for a while until my mother fell down a flight of stairs, broke her hip, ended up in the hospital and even my mother couldn't get a gin and tonic in the hospital and we spent the next three years closer than sisters. I am so blessed that I had three beautiful, wonderful years with her. We did everything together and then she died of breast cancer and I realized right there that if I didn't change, I was going to die as well.

Katharine: 4:43

So I'm 34 years sober at last count and I, you know, I kind of went into, did all the stuff you're supposed to do, but everybody tells you you have to forgive. Nobody teaches you how. They just tell you that you have to do it. And I was. I am now an extroverted introvert. So over the years I taught myself how to, how to turn on, so to speak. Back then I was really shy, so the idea of reaching out to somebody and calling them when you knew they're mad at you no, no, didn't want to do it. So the system that I've come, which is a step-by-step system one of the beauties of the system is you don't have to call anybody frankly. So it's it's.

Katharine: 5:25

I kind of went through life. I got a job. I ended up as one of the founders of the independent concierge industry and I told people how to be a concierge in customer service for many, many years. And like you, Cassandra, I can teach you the most beautiful words to say. I can teach you how to act, how to dress. Your anger is going to bleed through your body language, whether you wanted to or not, and people are going to notice. So I had to come up with a way to get people to mitigate their anger on the job when they couldn't leave their station. And back in the early 2000s you didn't bring a soft topic to the table, just wasn't done. Nobody did it. Well, Forgiveness was the only way I could think of to get them to get out of their anger on the spot, and that's how it all started. I became fascinated by it and a couple years ago, some friends of mine and I we discovered the secret sauce and we discovered the way how to forgive.

Cassandra: 6:27

Wow, this is going to be good Now. Okay, we heard your journey, so let's talk about how do you, in your life as well. Well, you know, we're all different ages but what manifests in you to say I need to forgive this person? How do you know you need to forgive? Is it because you're angry?

Katharine: 6:56

all the time. It's the main. My definition of anger, to be perfectly blunt, is I want you out of my head Bottom line. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop obsessing about you and I want to stop, and get you out off my head Bottom line. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop obsessing about you and I want to stop telling the story, and even if you know, we all have a story. So even if you're spinning the story funny, you're still telling the story. I had a story.

Katharine: 7:23

I'm a survivor of dysfunction, alcoholism blah, blah, blah. I'm a suicide survivor survivor of breast cancer, if you will and I had this big, huge story. But I realized that if I didn't give up the story, it wasn't going to be my authentic self. But if you give up your story, it's very scary. Who are you? That's a very scary thing. Who am I without my story? But you know, once you forgive, how do you know to forgive people? Because they're taking up space in your head. Whoever you're thinking about right now, on a 10 scale, with 10 being unforgivable dumpster fire and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive.

Katharine: 8:02

Every single one of you, including our esteemed host. You're all thinking of your number 10s. Everybody, everybody does it. It's your knee jerk reaction to immediately think about the person that hurt you the most, and the reason I call it a dumpster fire is because that person is in a dumpster with a whole bunch of bad memories. So I want you to leave that person for last and start with your number ones and start with the easy ones.

Cassandra: 8:30

Why.

Katharine: 8:31

Because there's so many people, places and things and I did say places and things with that thought there's so many other things you can forgive before you even get to that person.

Cassandra: 8:43

Okay.

Katharine: 8:43

So we start with the easy ones and you work your way up. That's the first, that's the first half of the system.

Cassandra: 8:50

Okay, Tell us about if you do forgive. What is the impact versus not forgiving? You forgive versus unforgiving.

Katharine: 9:08

Okay, first of all, just a a few, a little psa. If I forgive you, it doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. I probably don't, and that's fine. If I forgive you, it doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass. It doesn't mean you were correct. You're still wrong, you're still a dumpster fire and I still don't like you. Okay, forgiveness means I want to be free.

Katharine: 9:37

And to be perfectly blunt. You can forgive dead people. Why? Because it doesn't matter where people are or they're not. You're not reaching out to them. Forgiveness is selfish. You do it for you. You don't do it for them. You do it for you because you want them out of your head. So if they're taking up space in your head and you're remembering the memories, even if the memories were 50 years ago, I don't care. It's still in your head, alive and fresh, and you want to be able to toss it now. What does forgiveness do for you? There was a study done in japanese it's called the Japanese Water Study, by a guy named Masumoto, and I can't pronounce his last name. I can't remember what it is. It's right online and I'll simplify it for you really fast.

Katharine: 10:20

He took several containers of water. One container of water he spoke loving words to. That's all he did. He talked to it, spoke love to it, told it it was gorgeous and he loved it. The other container of water he spewed hate at it, horrible words. Then he froze the water and he put it under a microscope. The water that he spewed hate at had these dark, black and brown formations. They were malformations and they were horrible looking. The water he spoke love to, had these beautiful crystal formations. Why am I telling you this? The human body is 98% water. So when you have bad self-talk or you're angry and you're bitter and you're holding on to the grudges and the resentments and the hate and the anger, what do you think is going to the water cells within your body?

Cassandra: 11:08

Oh my, my gosh. That's interesting, katharine, because I was just getting ready to ask you that the harm to you yourself is not forgiving, uh, and there's sometimes, I I think too, a lot of sickness, you know, yeah, I don't have, I'm not a clinician or researcher, but I can just tell you know, just based on you know, and I think about my life and I knew that we were going to talk today. I was thinking about was there anybody? That I didn't forget? And then I did remember a couple of things.

Cassandra: 11:46

I wrote a chapter in my book called Dear Women who have Scars and Resentment. Right, and I was like wow, and I realized that I was resenting my parents because they had the secret, but everybody else shared the secret with me, but they didn't and they denied it. And the secret was that I had a sister and everybody around me knew it and I had no clue. My parents said that wasn't true and when I finally let go and forgave, I felt this relief, you know, and I and my perspective changed Like they did the best they could with what they had at that time.

Katharine: 12:29

The tools they had at the time Correct.

Cassandra: 12:31

Exactly so. That's so. I'm with you on that.

Katharine: 12:35

But here's the one piece, that that that makes this system completely unique. You did forgive your parents. You didn't forgive the energy. Einstein correctly proved that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It just transitions from one thing to another. So when you get angry, you think it leaves your mouth and it dissipates in the universe and goes into the clouds. It does not. It hangs around your energy field until you clear it, and everything in our universe, including this little microphone I have in front of me, has energy around it, and clearing the energy is what's going to clear the field.

Katharine: 13:15

Now, I know this is a podcast, but I can talk it through. I'm holding a coffee cup. Actually, it's filled with tea. I'm about to hold it in front of my face. So when I first get angry, I can hold this little cup of anger and bitterness and, you know, regret off to the side. I can mitigate my anger. It's easy. I got this. I can, I can deal with my life. Anger oh, I'm not angry, I'm. I can deal with this. The longer I hold on to it, the harder it's going to be. So now I'm using two hands to hold the cup and if you look at my body language, my life hasn't stopped.

Katharine: 13:52

I can still conduct life. I can still hold it off to the side, but it's starting to get into my head If I continue to hold on to it. Now I'm holding the cup in front of my face. My life has pretty much stopped because it's very painful. It's all I'm talking about. It's all I'm talking about. It's all I'm thinking about my friends have started to disappear.

Katharine: 14:11

It's at the front of my head and that's what happens when you forgive, even if you forgive the easy ones, and you work your way up using my little mantra. It's going to allow you to remove the clouds of anger from your purview and you're going to start to pay attention to life around you. You might see a new job that's going to double your income. You might see your your dream significant other. You might find a new way to lose weight. Why didn't you see these things before?

Katharine: 14:41

Because you were too focused on the anger on the anger and you're going to start to feel better because the water cells within your body are going to start to heal.

Cassandra: 14:51

Right? What about individuals that feel that someone should come to them and ask for forgiveness?

Katharine: 15:05

I would label those people as a level 8, 9, or 10, because it's really tripping you up at this point. Part of the system is I'm going to have you sit down and I want you to write a list of all the people you think you forgave and even if you think you've forgiven them and they come into your head, write it down anyways. And then I want you to rate the people from one to 10, one being easy, I can toss this in a second.

Katharine: 15:31

Like the person who cut you off on I-95 yesterday, you can forgive that person, the person who stole your sandwich from the lunch room. Tell me you can forgive that person. They were hungry you can get another sandwich.

Katharine: 15:48

And then you work your way up to the hard ones. And I want everybody to have a number. Now you can have 15, number fives, that's fine. You could skip a number, this is your party, you can do anything you want. And then I want you to very simply start at the beginning with the ones and work your way up the list and you forgive the person, the energy around the person, yourself, the energy around yourself and then the energy around the whole thing. Now, and it's a very simple little poem, you don't have to burn sage unless you want to. You don't have to hold a crystal or dance around your room unless you love to dance and that's what you want to do Very, very simple thing.

Katharine: 16:26

You don't have to reach out and call the person. This is something you do for you and you don't do it for them. It's never for them. This is all for you to get the name out of your head. And how do you know it worked? When you go on Facebook or you go to a holiday party and you see the person's name or you see their face, and it doesn't bother you. You're not thinking good thoughts or bad thoughts, you're just.

Katharine: 16:53

you don't care that's what I'm going for oh, that's good, I'm going for neutrality.

Katharine: 16:58

So let's say it's an unforgivable person like you're talking about. You're just holding this grudge and you think that they need to contact you. They probably never will. Um, there's a reason why I said people places and and there's a reason why I call it a dumpster fire at the other end of the spectrum, because everything has energy around it. So if you can't forgive that person, maybe just start with. I completely forgive myself for not being able to forgive and the energy around this thought Period.

Katharine: 17:29

Do that every day for a week and it's like an onion. The onion layers are going to start to come off. Okay, I still can't forgive that person. That's fair. Try forgiving the energy around the person. Okay, maybe you could do that. Maybe you can't even do that. Let's pick apart the memory. Everything has energy around it. So let's say, it was a holiday party, one of the memories. So I want you to forgive and I'm actually very serious. I want you to forgive the table, the chair, the turkey, the other people within the memory and the energy around all these things You're picking away at the memory. And if you never can forgive that unforgivable person, that's fine. Forgive what you can and keep going. Forgive yourself for anything you may or may not have done, the energy around yourself and keep going.

Cassandra: 18:19

Right, so are you saying that people around the table? There's someone at a table that you're angry with.

Katharine: 18:27

It's other people within the memory. You're trying to release the anger and it's from the anger.

Cassandra: 18:34

Yeah, let me ask you this. So during the holidays it could be a uh thorn, something about the holidays that could bring up things. You know, yeah, yeah, my dad got drunk and you know they would cuss in and my friend, he left the house. He wasn't invited. So what you're saying is, let's say everybody's the same sort of people are around the table, and so what you're saying is look at the objects and say I forgive the objects.

Katharine: 19:10

You forgive the people, the place, the thing, the energy, the date. I forgave 1974. Why did I forgive 1974? Because that's the year I tried to commit suicide. Now, I forgave all the players within that year, but then it was still chipping me up. So I finally decided to forgive 1974 and the energy around the year. I forgave breast cancer as a thing. I forgave the energy around breast cancer. I forgave my chemo chair, I forgave the infusion, I forgave all the operations I had. I forgave everything. I forgave the woman in the grocery store who wanted to know how much time I had left to live. It was fun and I forgave the energy around her. And it's all designed to take this energy level from, let's say, an eight, nine, 10, or even a four, five and six, so I can move it down to a forgivable level.

Cassandra: 20:27

Okay, let me ask you this, and then I have another question let's talk about how do you forgive?

Katharine: 20:38

The way I forgive people is I turn off my technology People. Your phone has an off button. I'm just saying. I said that to a woman about about a month ago and the color drained from her face.

Katharine: 20:52

She said, oh no, I couldn't turn it off it was fun and I want you to be alone, okay, and I tell the dogs and the cats and the grandkids and the kids and all of that. I just need you alone for about a half hour, 20 minutes and find your favorite comfy place. I usually sit in the middle of my bed. I do this before I go to sleep because your body heals itself when it sleeps, so I'll be sitting in my bed.

Katharine: 21:18

And I'll start with an easy one, a level one kind of person. So, and I want you to start from people from the sandbox all the way to present day, and usually my number ones were in the sandbox kids you went to school with years and years ago. So I forgave a level one person I went to school with, to grammar school, and I imagined that she was standing in front of my bed, as I knew her as a kid and sometimes I would let the person have it and I'd say whatever I wanted to say. I'm alone in a room, I could throw things at it if I want, but I imagined her, that she was in front of me. If you can't imagine the person in your head, get a chair and put their name on the chair and talk to the chair.

Katharine: 22:01

If that's an easy way for you to do it.

Cassandra: 22:03

Okay.

Katharine: 22:04

And then I forgave her. I completely forgive martha, I forgive the energy around martha, I forgive myself, I forgive the energy around myself, I forgive the energy around the entire situation. And so it is. It's really, that's really the mantra. And then I just imagine that they walk out of the room and I check in with my body is am I still angry, or does it my shoulders feel lighter? Did I feel some energy? Do I feel better? And if I am still angry, what's the number now? Is it a one, maybe? Or if I was a level five, is it a five? Did I move it down to a four? I had a client once who said she started with a three, but once she forgave that first level, it shot up to a seven, the reason being your brain is a phenomenal tool that protects you and, as you forgive that first layer, your brain's going to go wow, okay, she's ready for the closet in the back.

Katharine: 23:02

They're going to open it up and more memories are going to come out and what you thought might be a level three it might go up a bit because you're going to start to remember things. This is a marathon, it's not a sprint. This is going to take a while. You can't get a high level person, like a number 10, down to a one overnight. It's going to take a minute.

Cassandra: 23:21

So it's kind of like that saying when a student's ready, the teacher will appear.

Katharine: 23:28

Exactly Whoever you're thinking about right now is a good place to start, and whoever you're thinking about right now probably is a high number, because that's why they're in your head. So I would put that down on my paper and I would rank it as high as you think it should go. But I'd also think about easy things. You can forgive. We can irritate other humans. You maybe you got cut off. Somebody took your spot in line at the grocery store.

Cassandra: 23:57

Silly thing.

Katharine: 23:58

Forgive these people. Start with those people, but do put the person you're thinking about on your list, even if you thought you forgave them. You did. Forgive them, you did, but you didn't forgive the energy around them, which is why they're still in your head okay, um, explain this energy thing.

Cassandra: 24:15

I hear a lot and my listeners hear a lot. Um, um, explain the energy. Is it like when you, uh, you tense up and then when, when you release, it subsides and you feel better, so talk about that.

Katharine: 24:34

It can be as simple as that. You ever walk into a room and it just feels off. It just feels off. Okay, everybody on the planet is intuitive. You see it, feel it, know it, or you just sense it. And sometimes you know you'll shake somebody's hand. We were both in business for many, many years and we had to read hundreds of resumes, no doubt. And you shake somebody's hand and they're dressed perfectly, their resume is great, the references are great. You shake their hand and just feel wrong and you don't know why that's energy.

Katharine: 25:08

You're feeling the energy. That's energy and if you hire that person, you find yourself saying, six months down the line, I knew I shouldn't have hired that person. That was a little bird on your shoulder, whispering to you.

Cassandra: 25:25

That's the energy you're feeling.

Katharine: 25:27

That's what I'm talking about when you forgive somebody. My son I have a couple of sons and my older son did this process and he said mom, this is the strangest thing, he's a federal law enforcement officer up in Washington and he said my shoulders felt lighter and that's whacked. He said that's just, that's weird. But he said my shoulders felt lighter. I said there you go. That's forgiveness. You're going to feel the energy somewhere in your body.

Cassandra: 25:53

And if you don't?

Katharine: 25:54

feel the energy and you don't feel better. You probably have to make a few more passes at this person. So don't put a check mark by their name, wait 24 hours and do it again. I suggest everybody and I've got worksheets and all that kind of stuff in the book and there's the audio book available, all that kind of stuff but I suggest that you do only 10 to 12 at night. Here's why Do as I say, not as I did. My friends and I came up with this method around 2020, 2021, something like that, and I got my list together and I must have had 50 people on there. I'm a little bit of an overachiever and I thought this is going to be great.

Katharine: 26:34

I'm going to forgive all these people and I'm going to wake up tomorrow like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm going to be a butterfly coming out. I'm going to be a new person tomorrow morning Didn't work out that way. Remember the water study? The cells are changing my body.

Katharine: 26:54

I forgave too many people and my body had to play catch up. So I spent the next three days in bed with what everybody thought, very politely, was the stomach flu. It was not the stomach flu, it was my body trying to play catch up. So if you only do 10 to 12 at a time, your body will be able to mitigate it while you sleep. Most people, when they do this process, get really tired. Some people like me might be in the bathroom politely said you didn't need a piece of bad fish, it's just your body mitigating itself and getting rid of those water cells that we talked about and you're going to feel better. But only do it 10 at a time unless you want to get sick like I did. I had a client who didn't believe me and she said I must have forgiven 40 people. And I said what happened. She said I got really sick. And I said what happened.

Cassandra: 27:47

She said I got really sick, oh really, wow. So you said start with 10 to 12. So when you get to your comfortable place, yours is your bed. Somebody it could be somebody else, somewhere else with it, right? And then you name one person at a time as you go through.

Katharine: 28:09

I forgive you. Ok, right, and start with the easy ones. My five ones, my five. One of my besties say you know, three to four people a night. They're, they're, they're, they're even more severe than I am. I. I say 10 to 12, but katie and paula will tell you three to four people a night. If you really want to make sure you do it. But I think if you get up to 10 people, especially with the easy ones yeah, 100, you could probably do.

Katharine: 28:25

Toss 10 of those a night when you get up to 10 people, especially with the easy ones. Yes, a hundred percent. You could probably do toss 10 of those a night. When you get up to the higher numbers, yeah, you might want to limit yourself to two or three, because that's a lot of anger and it's going to take. You're not going to get a 10 down to a one in one sitting. It's going to take a while. You might get your 10 down to a nine.

Katharine: 28:42

You may you to say for a couple of weeks, I forgive myself for not being able to forgive George and the energy around George, and even that thought might piss you off. Quite frankly, just keep saying that and eventually you're going to be able to forgive parts of it. Now, to be very, very honest, there are unforgivable situations and people out there 100 percent, 100 percent black, 100 percent dark, 100 percent hate filled unforgivable. But there's other things in the memory you can forgive, like yourself, forgiving yourself is possibly the most important person to forgive and there's other things in the memory.

Katharine: 29:29

A lot of speakers and I'm not bashing speakers by any means, but back in my day we spent a lot of time talking about a wall that everybody comes up against and we want you to get through that wall, and here are tools to get you through that wall. Okay, here's my take on it Pull out a few bricks from the wall, forgive a few of them. Walk around the dumb thing. Forgive what you can keep going. Circle back if you can, and if you never can, circle back because it was so unforgivable, that's fine too.

Cassandra: 30:06

Keep going, forgive yourself and keep going Mm-hmm. So you can say I forgive, but I would know I don't, I won't forget.

Katharine: 30:12

Nobody forgets, right? I don't know who started that, but it's wrong. I don't know one person on the planet who can forget Not one. Now, as I said, as I've said before, there might be a unicorn person having this Susie, sunshine kind of life who's totally able to forget. I'm not that person. I have yet to meet somebody who can forget, but what I can promise you is I can. This system, the step-by-step system, will neutralize the memory. You won't care anymore, and that's a beautiful thing. In other words, it'll get it out of your head and at the end of the day, that's all I want. I it out of your head and, at the end of the day, that's all I want. I want you out of my head, that's it Doesn't mean I want a relationship with you, doesn't mean you were right. I just want to release you from my head. They're living in there, rent free. I think they should be evicted. It's about time you think so. Huh? Well, give them their notice, let me.

Cassandra: 31:05

Let me talk about God. Um, you know, we, you know life is, um, as you indicated, it's a marathon and there are a lot of things that happen in our lives tragedies, you know, and I remember I had a neighbor where they had a daughter that died and they were so angry I'll never forget it, and his thing was there can't possibly be a God, or I'm angry with God. You know just, I'll never forget it, and it was just so sad and I've not been in his shoes, but I just could imagine the death of a child. So when people are angry, and a lot of people get angry with God, how would you, how would you deal with that?

Katharine: 32:00

You can forgive anything. You can forgive God, as crazy as that sounds, and the energy around God. You can forgive politicians. You can forgive cities. You can forgive God as crazy as that sounds and the energy around God. You can forgive politicians, you can forgive cities. You can forgive the war in the Middle East.

Katharine: 32:12

What is that going to do for the war in the Middle East? Not a damn thing, but it's going to do an awful lot for you because you will not be angry anymore and you'll start to feel joy and you'll start to feel better. Who better than God? You can yell at God if you want to why not? Who better? But you can forgive anything in this life. The death of a child? I have never experienced that either and I can only imagine the pain that people have. And that might be one of those unforgivable things that we're talking about. 100% percent. And if you can, if you can find your in yourself to forgive yourself for any you know, for what it's worth, and forgive the situation and forgive god, that might be just enough to get tip the scale so you can start walking forward in love and joy, and that, that and that might take time that could take time, take a little bit of a time, I you know.

Katharine: 33:09

At the very least, just start with I completely forgive myself for not being able to forgive, and the energy around that, and say it every night before you go to sleep until maybe, maybe you might be able to forgive a little bit, a little, someone like somebody who you went to school with in grammar school or high school, somebody stole your sweater, whatever it is. Start with that saying and say it every night before you go to bed and combine that with gratitude the three things you're most grateful for that day, even if it's I had a hot cup of coffee today and it was delicious and I'm grateful for that, even if that's all you can think of. Do those things and do it for a week and you're going to start to feel better.

Cassandra: 33:50

Let me, let me reverse this a little bit and I'm going to talk about myself. I have, I know, that we all do things that we probably should not have. You know, and I can remember, when I was in the hotel business, I was confronted with a lot and I would say, the guest. One reason was when I would walk out and they asked for the general manager and they see that I'm an African-American, they look at me like, oh, no wonder, the hotel's falling down and falling apart and falling apart. And I said something that I should not have.

Cassandra: 34:33

As they say, they go low, I want to go high, but what I did after I did that, I thought about it and it didn't sit well with me. Yeah, and I actually found that guest to apologize for what I said, not for what they said to me, but I just wanted them to know that that was not of me and I just wanted to apologize for how I responded to what you said. Right, I actually felt better. I actually felt better. I didn't feel, I felt convicted because I, you know, and I was like if I wasn't a child of God, I would have done this and I would have said that, but yet I, you know, I knew that was wrong and I knew my, my staff saw that, so I let's reverse that. And somebody knows that they did something that was not the right thing. What about them going to apologize to that person, even though that person with them? Yeah?

Katharine: 35:35

Yeah, a hundred percent fair. If you feel the need to reach out to somebody, call them, go see them and make amends, do it. If that's what you need for closure, 100%, I'm all for it. If, for some reason, this happened to you way in the past and there's no possible way for you to forgive, to reach out to that person, here's what I do. We're all human. We've all done things we're not proud of. We've all said things in the heat of anger. How dare you say that to me? We've all done things we're not proud of. We've all said things in the heat of anger. How dare you say that to me? We've all done that, and what I did is I I can't pronounce this word I compartmentalized. There it is. I've been having a lot of trouble with that word recently.

Katharine: 36:15

I compartmentalized Katharine and I looked at teenage Kathrine and there's a passage in the Bible that always gets me to forgiveness. Jesus is nailed up on the cross and he says forgive them, father. They know not what they do, and what I've always thought he meant by that is if you're in the fifth grade and you don't know trigonometry, I can't get mad at you because you haven't learned it yet. So that's what I learned. That's how I forgave my parents. I look at that teenager and I forgave her using my mantra.

Katharine: 36:48

I completely forgive teenage Katharine and I forgive what she said and I forgive the energy around it. And I thought of the memories in those years and, you know, she did the best she could. She created a world for herself so she could survive and make it out. And then I did the same thing for my 20s and 30s. I did the same thing for my concierge years in business, and as the memories came into my head, I'd write them down on my paper and I would work on that every week and that's ultimately how I forgave myself. And I'm not, you know, whoever the ugly person was on the other side who said the horrible thing. Sometimes I would forgive them and the energy around them and sometimes, really, to be honest, if you want to be fair, sometimes I couldn't forgive them Absolutely couldn't forgive them.

Katharine: 37:36

So I would forgive the energy around the situation and I would check it off my list and keep going. There are unforgivable situations and people in this world, and will I circle back someday and forgive them? Probably I'll let you know.

Cassandra: 37:52

Wow, that reminds me of Matthew 18. I think it's verse 21. And the servant said well, how many times must I forgive? Seven, he's like Seven times seven.

Katharine: 38:09

Yeah, yeah, but he also said and I'm not very religious but I do know a few passages that really help me forgive and the other thing they said is yea, though I walk through the valley of shadow of death, I will feel no evil. He does not say have lunch in the valley. He does not say go visit friends in the valley of shadow of death, I will feel no evil. He does not say have lunch in the valley. He does not say go visit friends in the valley, don't build a house in the valley, walk through it and forgiveness.

Katharine: 38:33

A lot of people will look at me and say I don't want to go back there. I don't want to go back to my past and relive all of those horrible memories.

Katharine: 38:41

Okay, I'm asking you to walk through it. I'm asking you to walk through it. I'm asking you to go back one or two more times, forgive the players back there in that valley and keep going, so you never have to see them or hear from them again. In other words, you don't have to see it in your mind. You go to Thanksgiving, it won't bother you anymore, it's gone and I can look back at my past now. I can look back at my childhood and I actually can see the pockets of love that were there all along. I couldn't see it before, I can see it now. I can see the laughter and I can see the adults that were put in my life to help me get out Right, and that's what I remember now.

Cassandra: 39:19

Right, right. So so my listeners, my audience out there, this, this conversation, I think, is phenomenal, because I'm certain it has. You're thinking about some of these individuals that you are upset with or unnerved. It could even be a family member. Would it be great if you could use the techniques that Katharine shared for you to release all of that within you and feel better. It's like she said. Her son said it felt like a burden was lifted off of him by doing that, and I share with my listeners again is what do you have to lose? You know, try it. You know, like you said, I will never, never forget. Like marriages, divorcing, and it's like, oh, my goodness, you know. And then it goes on the children and you talk about that person, and then the children get involved.

Katharine: 40:21

Intergenerational trauma.

Cassandra: 40:23

Exactly, Exactly, and so let me ask you one more question. Why are people because that's one of the things I said in the beginning, this podcast is for individuals that are stuck why is it so hard for them to forget?

Katharine: 40:39

Because we're never taught how.

Cassandra: 40:41

Okay.

Katharine: 40:43

And we're also taught at least I was I speak for myself in the 70s I'm 63, but might as well put it out there and in the 70s we were taught that negative emotions were bad. If you were crying, you were told I'll give you something to cry about, stop it. And if we were crying, if we were depressed, get over it. We were never allowed to dive into those emotions, so we had to stuff it deep down inside of us, because children should be seen and not heard, don't you know?

Katharine: 41:13

Now society is not that way anymore. But a lot of us were taught this and I'm here to say I want you to dive into the emotions one more time so you can let it go. Holding onto it is just making you sick. If you dive into that toxic sex pool, you're going to actually be able to clear it.

Cassandra: 41:31

Right, that's good, Katharine. I love that. That's really good. I don't know what else to say. I thought this was great. I know that there are so many people that have unforgiveness in their heart, even what concerns me, even at the death of a loved one, that's when things like families, just like oh, oh and I know families that still don't speak, like you know is it really worth it, is it really worth your health for you to you know, to be that way. You know it just. It just makes me think. And when I heard you, Katharine, you and some of your clients you talked about, well, I'm going to put down 10 to 12 people that I'm angry with and, to be honest, I can't think of 10 to 12 people and I'm just grateful for that, but it lets you know that those are individuals out there that may have 50, you know, yeah, so thanks for your transparency with that. I'm like you got 10, 12 people that you're angry with.

Katharine: 42:39

Well, to be fair, I also wrote down memories. I wrote down periods of time like the eighth grade and in the eighth grade there were a lot of players, you know there were my parents. I mean there were a lot of players in that year. So I kind of compartmentalized it and I kind of went through it memory by memory. So, yeah, I had a lot of people, but when I first started this, I started with the easy ones.

Katharine: 43:04

I started with the really easy ones, and this is to mostly women, because women seem to have this more than men. With all due respect, I have to say it. You are worthy to lead a life of joy. You are worthy to live a life with happiness. You were not meant to live in a refrigerator box in the street. You're meant to have a beautiful home and a great job with income. You are worthy, it is your birthright. And the anger is holding you from your birthright.

Katharine: 43:40

And if you work this system, you're going to find your true, authentic self. In other words, the person you came down from heaven to be is finally going to appear. And I know a lot of people are saying what is my purpose? Why am I here? You're going to find out and it's important, it's a great purpose. We need you here.

Cassandra: 44:00

But you're worthy to have it and I see you as a testament. When you were younger, you wanted to commit suicide.

Cassandra: 44:08

And my sisters have had that thought too. But look at the outcome. If you could just hold on, just hold on, as Katharine said, there's something out there for you. You just got to ask and be open and let go of this unforgiveness and all of that. So, Katharine, I'm glad that the Lord spared your life so that you could be a beacon for many listeners and people, period, that have unforgiveness in their heart. So it's my pleasure.

Cassandra: 44:40

Yeah. So thank you so much and, as I always say at the end of my podcast to my listeners, bye for now, and God bless you and Katharine. I want to thank you so much. I'm so appreciative of you and your gifts.

Katharine: 44:55

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Cassandra: 44:58

Thank you.